Are all Nursing Programs like this?

[JTinSC]

I entered my first semester of nursing school this semester with all the confidence in the world. I've maintained a 3.85 GPA with high A's in all of my Science classes, and expected to do well once I started my Nursing classes, boy was I wrong.

This program in short, is pure hell. The first week of class they give us a chain of command as if we were working in a business. We are not suppose to go over any teacher's head. They seemed to threaten us that if we did, consequences would ensue. They told us we were not to bad mouth the program, we could not voice our opinions to anyone else, or else we might be kicked out of the program. This is in the first week, and it made me feel like I was in a prison, or a strict job where I was basically suppose to keep my mouth shut and just take whatever they dished out.

Now we have taken our first test in fundamentals and psych. I think out of 80 people maybe 2-3 people passed the fundamentals, and I'm not sure about the psych test. I do not believe its the students though, because I know I study religiously everyday, but these teachers do not know how to create a question. In their question they might ask for an nursing intervention, but the answer is a goal you want the client to achieve. I think the tests are so fubar'd and there's nothing we can really do about it. I'll give you an example of a typical question we had:

"While applying restraints, what technique should you use?"

Note that this question asks while applying restraints, what technique should be used. The answer to this question was "reassess the client 30 minutes to an hour."

How can that be the answer? Am I wrong for thinking this is incorrect because the question asks about a technique while you are applying the restraints, and not what follow up assessments should be done? It has been driving me crazy, and we can't really talk to the teachers about anything, because they treat us like students, and we don't know anything. We can't tell the teachers why we think its wrong, they just tell us we're wrong, and that's it.

Apparently they are noticing how messed up these tests are because our last psych test did not count. They decided to give us a retest on our psych exam, is this common? I look at it as the teacher's have no idea what they are doing when it comes to creating test questions.

We review tests after we're done each one. For our last test, the teacher who created it was teaching another class, so another teacher went over the test for us. There was a problem because the teacher who created it only marked the answers on the first half of the test. When we got to the questions that weren't answered, and everyone started asking the teacher for the answers, she would not give them to us. She was not confident enough to give us the correct answers to the test. Am I wrong in thinking that is BS, that our instructor can't even answer questions on the test confidently, and we're suppose to be confident in answering them?

I just want to know if all programs are like this, because this one is just making me feel hopeless, and I feel like the instructors are destroying my future. I want to transfer, but I'm not sure if its just me and maybe I can't handle it, but I know my stuff, and I study, but its like no matter how much I study and understand all these concepts, I can't answer a question that is asking one thing, but means another.

I just need to vent, because I don't know anyone who's been through nursing school, so I have no one to ask about this. I can't go to my teachers because its wrong to voice my opinions an concerns. I just need to know if all nursing programs are like this, because if not, then I'm transferring out of this dead end hell hole asap.

[dijaqrn]

What city are you in? I'd run before I let this craziness trash my GPA. It is unprofessional to trash your program, clinical sites and their staff IN FRONT of the PATIENTS and of course you should bring clinical issues to the instructor first. That said, your programs prohibitions are just wierd. If your instructor can't utilize the nursing process correctly it's time to run. Make sure it's not a lone crazy instructor who has a problem. I'd get a group together and visit the program director. Good luck.

[moongirl]

yes, this is the way my program is as well. Shut up and take it, dont question us, we are right. They hinge it on their spectacular NCLEX pass rate, 100 percent for the last 3 years, so they are the end all know all. The only way we can challenge a test is to have 2 sources in writing that prove our point. No talking about it to them, no going to other instructors etc. They tell us what they are going to do and we say "yes ma'am" otherwise you get a "disciplinary note" once, the second time, youa re out. They can get away with this because they take 70 students a year for the program and the year I applied, there were 273 applicants. WE need them, they dont need us. plenty more to come in and take our spot. SO- if you truly cant live with it, then get out, but think your options thru first. Is there another program with a spot just waiting for you??

good luck

Moon- semester 4/4 - it CAN be done!

[NurseLatteDNP, MSN, DNP, RN]

My program is like that too. We started with 30 students, and now I am in my 4th semester and we only have 60 students. I think they are just looking for good test takers, because some of the students that have failed would have made excellent nurses.

[GIRN]

I feel really bad for you! This program is unacceptable. I agree with the last post that you should get a group to go to the Director of the Program and tell them your concerns. However, be prepared to be punished for doing that if the Director is the one pushing this attitude. There's safety in numbers, though, so make sure others feel the same way and ask them to step up with you to do that.

Our program wasn't at all that bad but it was a slap in the face when I started. On the first night, I called the Instructor by her first name and she gave us all a lecture on how we should be addressing them by their last name because we always address our 'superiors' by their last name as a sign of respect. We couldn't believe it! I had been in different professional workplaces for 20 years before I went back for this degree and had never called my boss or anyone I worked for by their last name. That's absurd and degrading to us. The instructors however, had had a problem with the last group of students not showing them the proper respect and had come up with this as the answer. (Adressing the students individually who had been disrespectful seemed the answer, rather than treating us all like children....but they didn't ask us for our input....) Anyway, we went to the Director and let her know that we felt patronized and disrespected as adult learners but it didn't do any good. They continued that process though many of us just silently rebelled and counted the days till we could walk away from the program.

I remember one new instructor had just gotten her Masters in Education and had spent lots of time on her degree and none on the class she was teaching. She was borrowing one instructor's lecture notes to teach us, but another instructor's tests. You can imagine that we were blindsided by some of the test questions that seemed to come out of nowhere. When we tried to explain that we hadn't been presented with that information in her lecture, it was just seen as whining. She would find the answer in a text that hadn't even been assigned to us and tell us it was right there and we should have known it. And yes, the questions on many of the tests throughout school were poorly written and could have had other acceptable answers. We found out quickly though, that it was better to just take your grade and walk away. The instructor held all the power and no one wanted to hear about it. Most of us did graduate and are very happy now as nurses but it sure gave me a bitter taste in my mouth about nursing school. I was so glad to be finished with it. Pretty sad, really.

Like I said, I feel for you and are sorry that you have to go through this. I would certainly look into another school if there's one available but talk to some current students there to see if it's any better. And if you leave, try to write down in a letter what you were frustrated and unhappy with and give it to the Director with copies going to the Board. We've GOT to improve our Nursing Schools or we'll never get out of this shortage....Good luck!

[Jules A, MSN]

yes, this is the way my program is as well. Shut up and take it, dont question us, we are right. They hinge it on their spectacular NCLEX pass rate, 100 percent for the last 3 years, so they are the end all know all. The only way we can challenge a test is to have 2 sources in writing that prove our point. No talking about it to them, no going to other instructors etc. They tell us what they are going to do and we say "yes ma'am" otherwise you get a "disciplinary note" once, the second time, youa re out. They can get away with this because they take 70 students a year for the program and the year I applied, there were 273 applicants. WE need them, they dont need us. plenty more to come in and take our spot. SO- if you truly cant live with it, then get out, but think your options thru first. Is there another program with a spot just waiting for you??good luck Moon- semester 4/4 - it CAN be done!

:yeahthat:

Sounds similar to my program also. We had over 400 applicants for 40 spots. We definitely needed them more than they needed us hence where the power lies.

[Myxel67]

I entered my first semester of nursing school this semester with all the confidence in the world. I've maintained a 3.85 GPA with high A's in all of my Science classes, and expected to do well once I started my Nursing classes, boy was I wrong.

My experience was certainly like yours. And from conversations with nurses over the last 13 years, I believe many nursing programs are similar

We started with 94 students and were divided into 3 sections for lecture. Each section had a different instructor, but all three sections took the same exam. Although it was stated that the 3 instructors had equal input on exam questions, most were actually written by the head of the department who taught one of the sections. IMO, this person was on a power trip and took pride in her ability to create questions that were so good (tricky) that few were able to answer them. In her view, to reach the correct response, the student had to be able to think critically. Although about 75% of our class were over 30 and pursuing nursing as a second career, she treated us all as though we were fresh out of highschool with no previous life or career experience. Apparently in her mind, nursing is the only field that relies on critical thinking.

On our first exam, one of the questions was "Your patient has just expired, and family members are waiting outside to come in. What should your first nursing action be. In my lecture section we talked about this briefly so I picked the only action that was even mentioned. I remember only two of the four possible answers: the one most of the class chose, and the right one.

a. remove all tubes and medical devices.

b. place the patient in a comfortable position.

The majority of students who answered correctly were in the lecture section taught by the department head. Our question was, "How are you going to validate the the patient is comfortable if he is already dead?" The only person in our section who answered correctly was a friend who raised her hand and asked our instructor for clarification.

About 2/3 of the class of 94 people failed the exam. We did get together and approach the director. Apparently they were used to this, but in the past only those who failed joined in the protest. We were able to get an agreement that a question would be reviewed if more than 50% answered incorrectly. Still only 1/3 of the students who started the preogram with us made it through the program.

IMO, many of the instructors in nursing programs are nurses who found they really didn't like floor nursing. Nursing needs better educated teachers who have some idea of and skill in effective teaching methods. Our program seemed to have adopted half of the methods of the Marine Corps. They certainly tried to break our spirits and convince us that we were know-nothing recruits. But they left out the second half which is to build us back up to be proud and capable nurses (Marines).

Many of the instructors appeared to be just one reading assignment ahead of the class. There wasn't enough depth of knowledge to be able to answer student questions. An example of my expereince with this:

The instructor was lecturing about the risk factors of CAD. She seemed to be reading a lot straight out of our Med-Surg textbook. As she talked about the risks of tobacco smoking and stated that smoking contributes to risk of CAD in three ways. The first reason sounded OK, but then she read "Second, nicotinic acid in tobacco products triggers the release of catecholimines, which cause arterial constriction. I didn't know everything there was to know about CAD, but I did know what nicotinic acid is. I raised my hand and asked, "Nicotinic acid is niacin, a B vitamin that causes vasodilation. How can this statement be correct?" Her answer: "It must be right; that's what it says in the book."

My advice: keep studying and trying your best, and it it's allowed during exams, raise your hand and ask for clarification.

[carolinapooh, BSN, RN]

I hate to say this, but I wasn't treated that poorly in BOOT CAMP. I wasn't even treated like this in the military.

This is ridiculous to me. Thank God the program I attend treats us like human beings and not prison chattel, because you can bet I would NOT put up with any of this stuff.

Respect is NOT commanded, it is EARNED. They have absolutely no respect for you at all. "Yes ma'm"? And you get DISCIPLINED for not doing it? Granted, you should say it - but I haven't been DISCIPLINED for such an infraction since I got out of the military (and I didn't get hit for it there, I say it to everyone, being a child of a Southerner and a retired Navy man anyway). How RIDICULOUS is that, anyway? This is STILL America, right? GRRR!

I'd start documenting and running stuff up the chain of command. If they continue to treat people like that, they WILL end up "needing" you because there will be no one left to teach.

This is horrid. Know also that I'm ranting because I cannot STAND to hear of people being treated this way. These schools have completely lost the plot.

[moongirl]

I hate to say this, but I wasn't treated that poorly in BOOT CAMP. I wasn't even treated like this in the military.

This is ridiculous to me. Thank God the program I attend treats us like human beings and not prison chattel, because you can bet I would NOT put up with any of this stuff.

Respect is NOT commanded, it is EARNED. They have absolutely no respect for you at all. "Yes ma'm"? And you get DISCIPLINED for not doing it? Granted, you should say it - but I haven't been DISCIPLINED for such an infraction since I got out of the military (and I didn't get hit for it there, I say it to everyone, being a child of a Southerner and a retired Navy man anyway). How RIDICULOUS is that, anyway? This is STILL America, right? GRRR!

I'd start documenting and running stuff up the chain of command. If they continue to treat people like that, they WILL end up "needing" you because there will be no one left to teach.

This is horrid. Know also that I'm ranting because I cannot STAND to hear of people being treated this way. These schools have completely lost the plot.

the chain of command is the one who instills all the rules in the first place. Rules at my college come directly from the Division Chair and Program Director of Nursing. The " yes ma'am" was figurative.. we arent required to say that, but we are required to ACT that way. I honestly, since I have first sat down in my very first lecture, have felt like a second grader. Not one time have I ever felt like a full grown 40 yo woman with a husband, children and a life. Their way or the highway. Dont like it, then I guess you leave and dont get that RN that you wanted.

[carolinapooh, BSN, RN]

the chain of command is the one who instills all the rules in the first place. Rules at my college come directly from the Division Chair and Program Director of Nursing. The " yes ma'am" was figurative.. we arent required to say that, but we are required to ACT that way. I honestly, since I have first sat down in my very first lecture, have felt like a second grader. Not one time have I ever felt like a full grown 40 yo woman with a husband, children and a life. Their way or the highway. Dont like it, then I guess you leave and dont get that RN that you wanted.

I'm in your corner. I'm lucky that I don't have that problem. Generally, there are other games in town, so to speak.

I will say this - the mere fact that people are being disciplined for not showing respect shows another thing entirely. And I have seen way too many KIDS (eighteen year olds) who NEED to be disciplined for their behavior. Usually, though, everyone pays for the ignorant behavior of a few.

[Little Panda RN, ASN, RN]

I would have never put up with crap like that when I was in school. Of course I did mine by distance education, but I still had to travel to campus a few times during the semester and for clinicals. I do remember during the summer of 2006 the program I was in decided to transfer all its data to another portal and during this transfer all the exams ended up with the wrong answers. So when we took our first exam the whole class "failed". Well, let me tell you there was an uproar! We did not stand passively by, we raised our voices loud and clear. We let it be known that we were paying for our education at a 192.00 per credit hour, which is no paultry sum, and that we demanded that they look into what happened. They did and the exams were corrected.

Now, I realize not all programs will respond this way, but you are paying for your education, you are an adult, not a teenager in high school. You should be treated as an adult, IMHO. I sure hope it gets better for you! Hang in there if you can, justice will prevail!!!!