Andrea Yates R.N.

burn out · Jul 8, 2006

no matter what they do to Andrea Yates nothing could be as horrible as getting back on you medication and coming to your senses to realize that you murdered all 5 of your children. To me death would be merciful than to have to live with that realization for the rest of your life.

Liddle Noodnik · Jul 8, 2006

no matter what they do to Andrea Yates nothing could be as horrible as getting back on you medication and coming to your senses to realize that you murdered all 5 of your children. To me death would be merciful than to have to live with that realization for the rest of your life.

Amen

1studentnurse · Jul 8, 2006

It's sad to think about, but I wonder about Rusty Yates myself.

If he's not a vasectomy poster child, I don't who else could be!

BTW he divorced Andrea and married another woman. I think he is just one of those types who will need progeny "to carry on his name" whether he is a good parent or not.

tx2007, RN · Jul 8, 2006

The woman clearly had mental problems and those problems led directly to the death of her children. A sane person would not have done something so senseless.
That being said, that is NOT the standard of proof for innocent by reason of insanity in Texas. The standard of proof is that she didn't realize it was wrong.
The first thing she did after drowning those kids was to call her husband and the police to inform them of her deed. That indicates an understanding that her actions were wrong.
And that precludes an insanity defense in Texas. She will go back to prison.
~faith,
Timothy.

I think you hit the nail on the head!!! Mental Illness maybe but she obviously KNEW it was WRONG!!

CaseManager1947 · Jul 8, 2006

In regards Andrea Yates, A credible and reliable psychiatric practitioner would do his own assessment, but gather collateral data from family & friends, any witnesses to incidents pertinent to his data. He would also turn to the bible of mental illness diagnostics, The DMS IV TR, the measure that is used in court as a diagnostic guideline. To respond to the issue of depression vs psychosis. her 5 Axial diagnostic profile might look like this:

Axis I MDD, recurrent severe with psychosis & with post partum specifier

Axis II Deferred (don't know anything about personality d/o

Axis III GvPv SP lady partsl deliviery, remote and recent (any other medical stuff goes here)

Axis IV Problems with primary support group, problems with finances, problems with living arrangements, Marital Discord followed by divorce

Multiple losses;

Axis V (guessing say at time of the murders 20/100 Past: Unk.

I believe Andrea was Basically impregnated time after time by her spouse, even knowing her fragile state. Unfortunately the insanity defense in most states, (I don't know texas) won't work, because it must be proven by the State that the person did not know right from wrong at the time they were doing these act/s. Ms yates is getting a new trial due to procedural error in the first one.... the prosecutor left out of discovery a few key tidbits that were supposed to come in. :nono: I suppose everyone knows that her ex-husband will be testifying. She had been medicated for Depression with antipsychotics, although the effectiveness of such treatment has been criticized in the forum. Short story--> I believe (only from what i have read and heard knowing these sources are not always unbiased, ) that the lady was psychotic, and may have been hearing voices telling her to do bad things to her kids. We don't know that. I do know that the diagnosis exists, because I have seen it in clents when I worked in Psych. And this woman is not the first woman to kill her child/ren under such circumstances.If not, there would not be the available literature out there.

DSM says that once a woman has had an episode of post-partum depression, her chances for a repeat episode increase with each pregnancy, as does the psychosis. Maybe this info will help- maybe it won't. I recommend prayer for this poor woman, and offer prayers to God in her name. Also check out the DSM IV tr on the web, used to be more propriatary, but you can get a good feel for diagnoses on the web site.

Morghan, MSN,ARNP (PMHNP). BC, CARN, ACM

Wichita, kansas

amybethf · Jul 8, 2006

Here's a good short summary of the case.
http://crime.about.com/od/current/p/andreayates.htm
Personally, I think she was delusional, insane, and nuts as they come. Her trouble seemed to escalate when a new psychiatrist took her off of the haldol and told her to "think positive thoughts."
Any justice out there for her ex-husband Rusty? Let's just say I'm not fond of him and find him morally reprehensible.

In my opinion, any mother who could kill her own children is bonified crazy. A normal sane mother would never bring harm to her kids. I have 2 and although they drive me crazy, they are children, small people who have no adult knowledge and whom are here to test their environment. That's what kids do. I feel so bad thinking about how those kids must have felt and fought to get away.

But what about her husband? Where the hell was he? Why would he keep impregnating her when he had to have known she was on the verge of completly losing her grip? I know he probably never thought it would come to such a sad horrific end but I remember seeing him on interviews and on Oprah and he was like a stone, no emotion. It was eerie to say the least. Looking at the pics of his kids and there were no tears. Just creepy.

Do you think that her pregnancies made her insane? I didn't experience postpartum depression, I mean I was overwhelmed at times with my newfound responsibilities and lack of free time but I wasn't exactly sad. Was she like that after her first birth? So many questions but sadly too few answers.

LydiaNN · Jul 8, 2006

This wasn't postpartum depression, it was postpartum psychosis. Yes, the pregnancy exacerbated her already tenous mental state. Her husband's failure to foresee this tragedy highlights his obliviousness to her struggles in general. And now, he's just picking up where he left off with another woman. This whole sad case speaks to the stigma and ignorance that is still attached to mental illness in this country.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Jul 8, 2006

even if the court does not do right by these poor children, in the end God had the final say. Oh sorry I mentioned God to any one who is offended by this, please read somewhere else.:angryfire :angryfire

What is your understanding of psychosis? How would you describe it?

Liddle Noodnik · Jul 8, 2006

In regards Andrea Yates, A credible and reliable psychiatric practitioner would do his own assessment, but gather collateral data from family & friends, any witnesses to incidents pertinent to his data. He would also turn to the bible of mental illness diagnostics, The DMS IV TR, the measure that is used in court as a diagnostic guideline. To respond to the issue of depression vs psychosis. her 5 Axial diagnostic profile might look like this:.....
Morghan, MSN,ARNP (PMHNP). BC, CARN, ACM
Wichita, kansas

Good solid post, good info, thanks very much!

nursemelani · Jul 8, 2006

Any responsible husband and father struggling with a mentally ill wife, who by history suffers from postpartum psychosis, should definately be told "sorry you have a mental illness and no more children for you!" and he should wear condoms. He is equally at fault for having 5 children.

Amen. He should have gotten a vasectomy after kid number two. This was one of the most horrifying stories I have ever heard. If Andrea is ever let out of a mental institution, they should give her a tubal ligation before releasing her.

tx2007, RN · Jul 8, 2006

Amen. He should have gotten a vasectomy after kid number two. This was one of the most horrifying stories I have ever heard. If Andrea is ever let out of a mental institution, they should give her a tubal ligation before releasing her.

IMHO I dont think she should EVER be released!! I dont know and never will know IF she was truly pshychotic (No one will know for sure, we have to believe whatever she says) But I do believe she NEEDS help and if her illness has been so severe for so long she should stay in a mental health facility for the rest of her life, so that she never harms another person, including herself!

nursemelani · Jul 8, 2006

You know, it's one thing to read the definition of psychosis in a textbook. I don't think it really sinks in until you sit with someone experiencing it, and hear their delusions and see them respond to or try to hide auditory or visual hallucinations. It is actually quite fascinating. Their delusions and/or hallucinations are just as real to them as we all perceive our reality to be.
I cannot describe how fascinating and heart breaking it was for me to watch my father in a psychotic state once when he took too much of a medication. He was convinced that it was 1970 (this was in 1999) and that he had another name. He was convinced that Johnson was president. As his psychosis worsened, his response to all questions was "red" or "blue" or "green" or "yellow". I had him hospitalized immediately. Lucky for him, he was in a safe place and didn't harm anyone. I find it laughable that some think someone like this is responisible for their actions during a psychotic state. It is the resonsibility of those around the psychotic person to protect the person and others, similar to how we protect a person having a seizure from harm.

Multi- I had a similar experience with my Dad. He had been healthy all his life, except for a bout of depression 20 years ago, after my Mom died. Then, 2 years ago, after undergoing an angioplasty and some extensive dental work, he suddenly went off the deep end. He started telling his wife the heater was broken, even though their house was sweltering. Everyone in the house was taking off clothes, complaining of the heat, yet still he insisted that the heater was broken. He then said that it was not fixable, and they would have to burn the house down and re-build. He was 100 percent convinced of this. At the same time, he stopped eating, and lost 30 pounds in a month. He also stopped bathing, and paying the household bills. Surprisingly, it was impossible to get him admitted to a psych facility. They seemed to fel that he was not a danger to himself or others, even though he was literally not eating for a month. Anyway, after experimenting with several drugs, over the course of 4 or 5 months, we got him rational again. He is still depressed, but no longer planning on burning the house down. My point is that an intelligent, rational, calm and peaceful person can become completely irrational and out of touch with reality.

So while the Andrea Yates things was a horrific tragedy, I certainly don't think that she was sane at the time. Her stupid husband should have gotten snipped after realizing that his wife becomes psychotic after childbirth, instead of getting her pregnant FIVE times, and then leaving her home alone with the kids.