Andrea Yates R.N.

[SkateBetty]

Did you know that Andrea Yates, the woman who is now being re-tried for drowning her 5 children in Texas was a nurse? I just thought it was interesting.

[adnstudent2007]

You're missing the point by several miles. We're not talking about a garden variety mental illness here. This was postpartum psychosis and it put his children at great risk. He knew this. Never mind for a moment the fact that he was the one encouraging her to continue having babies. Had that not be the case, while he couldn't have stopped his wife from wanting more children, he could and should have taken the obvious preventive measures available to him to ensure that he didn't father more victims. The fact that it was a horrible tragedy doesn't preclude the role his actions played in the outcome.

I understand that the husband made some bad decisions and did not do things he probably should have. However, I am not going to say he should be charged as an accessory. He was NOT the one that drowned them. His five children died. I'm sure there was denial (from many of these people) about the seriousness of her illness. I think that the psychiatrist who told her to "think positive thoughts" instead of treating her problem is a whole lot more guilty than a husband who wants children.

I know one of the psychiatrists recommended not having more children due to an exacerbation of the psychosis. But really, how many people always do what our doctors tell us to? Should you be guilty of a crime if you don't do what your doctor tells you to? Despite the terribleness of this case, I really don't think so.

[Liddle Noodnik]

I had heard that despite her previous mental illness the doctor decided to take her off her medication and that is when she drowned her children. I think anyone on medication for an illness who has those type of tendencies should not be taken off of them because they are getting a little better. There are always pros and cons but I am sure there will be those that argue that Yates should get off because of the doctors faults and she was insane at the time because of being taken off of those medications. I would have to interview and assess her to truly know what I felt because drowning your children is a horrible act but at the same time the fault of the doctor taking her off the medicines is another dilemma. It is a hard ethical decision that I am glad I don't have to decide on.

Maybe they were trying to conceive again???????

[Liddle Noodnik]

Thanks zoeboboey... I'm been on many a psych unit...psych facility, etc. Two of my five kids were adopted (we had a 3, 6, and 7 year old when my husband and I adopted a 6 and 7 year old around 12 years ago) and both of my adopted kids were diagnosed with a mental illness in their preteen and teen years ...

... Thanks zoeboboey I send many HUGS your way :icon_hug:

I think I forgot to say, did I? that my own son was a mental health consumer (isn't that an idiotic phrase but that's what they call it...) In 1st grade they said he had ADD (not the ADHD but just ADD); in second grade he ran away from home and was found walking along the railroad tracks - at 12, bipolar, suicide attempt, 3 hospitalizations. At 14, he was back and forth between mom and dad's house, mostly dad's because he had become impossible for me to deal with (my own depression plus his), and it was then he was able to start hiding his meds instead of taking them. He dropped out of school at the beginning of 10th grade (with his attendance record we could safely say 9th, but who's counting...)

He never got violent TOWARDS us, but he would smash walls, yell, kick and break things, etc. Toward the end of his teen years he was more apt to just veg on the computer and do nothing, hardly ate (unless you put it in front of him) and stayed up all nite. Wrote dark poetry, surfed and wrote on dark websites, listened to dark music, wore black, mopey. He was fine unless you tried to get him to do something he wasn't interested in doing. Then, the explosion. So in order to appease him I would not challenge him, and I would sometimes buy him more things than really I could afford. I would take him just about anywhere cuz "at least he had friends" (his friends actually weren't too bad and they all hung out here quite a bit). Such a life, eh?

Then I don't know what happened, I ran out of money is the biggest thing, ha ha! Couldn't give him ANYthing extra. So he suddenly needed a job for some reason! LOL! And voila, he went and got his GED, and a job, and did PRETTY well. He has since moved in with his dad (at 19) and works full time, has car payments, is a pretty "normal" kid I guess. Dad says T has started drinking tho (his dad and I are alcoholic in recovery). T has been smoking pot for a few years and he says that makes him feel "normal" - the alcohol also could be medicating his bipolar symptoms (his dad and I have that too).

Of course with him gone I can focus better on my OWN mental health, sigh.... I haven't worked for a while and depression has been a problem, mostly. Partly due to HIS situation. And a few manic episodes. That's neither here nor there, but anyway...

T COULD get sick again - he could get in trouble with the alcohol or use something even worse - he could this, he could that... but, with the size of the prayer team I have on him, forget it - he won't be able to move a FINGER without God's permission, LOL.

SO - end of the story is, I enjoy him, I am thankful. Despite our troubles, T and I for the most part have had a pretty good relationship. He is actually pretty affectionate, hugs me and seems sincere when he tells me he loves me. He's fun and I like him. He even bought me lunch the last time I went to visit him (he comes here too sometimes).

So as you see, thankfully I never had to do the extreme interventions you are speaking of (giving you a cyber hug...) WOW! We did have to call the cops once because T had barricaded himself in his room once, and wouldn't contract to be safe. That was fun. He STILL hasn't forgiven us for that one...

Take care. I am so sorry you have, and have had, so much struggle. I pray something changes, maybe something will break with your son, and he will want more than he has for a life. I can't imagine having to tell him he can't come back, but I would, and there is NOTHING wrong with your having done that. You are actually HELPING him by showing him the natural consequences of his behavior and his lack of compliance. Still, hurts.

God bless you and keep up the good work "Ma", your boys are blessed, even the one that doesn't seem to know it ... Don't let it break your heart. I pray all will be well with them!

How are all the other kids? And you and "Pa"?

[adnstudent2007]

Maybe they were trying to conceive again???????

This isn't against you, Zoeboboey, but this is an example of something about all this that bothers me about this whole case. None of us were there when it happened and none of us really knows what any of these people were thinking. All of what we know is from what people have said and some things that they remember. Some things that are said may not be accurate or maybe used inaccurately. I can see someone seeing zoeyboboeys statement "Maybe they were trying to concieve again" and missing the maybe and stating it as fact "They were trying to concieve again." That does make it sound very different (and worse for the husband). There is so much heresay out there and this is how rumors get started.

[Liddle Noodnik]

Does anyone know if there were any accessory charges made in this case? If her psych professional was charged with anything, if her pastor/priest was charged with anything? The case for child endangerment here is so strong; I'm very surprised to see that her husband was not charged/convicted of that at the very least. Do psych professionals have the same failure to rescue issues as the rest of the medical field does? I'm pretty sure that clergy members have mandatory reporting mandates as well. Any thoughts?

I should think yes, yes, and yes. I don't know though if any of this was followed thru with.

They certainly SHOULD all be culpable! They may not have HAD the evidence, but if they DID - God will deal with them I'm sure... grrr....

[june-pearl]

Andrea Yates suffered from Post-Partum Psychosis NOT Post-Partum Depression. The two are not the same. Thousands of mothers every year suffer from post-partum depression and do not kill their children. There are many effective treatments including anti-depressants (which often can be taken for short periods of time per MD directions) which can alleviate post-partum depression.

The fact that Ms. Yates had been taking Haldol is a red flag indicating a much more serious problem. Her doctor failed her miserably and IMO should be sued for malpractice for suggesting that she could 'will' herself out of this serious mental illness.

BTW, why are we surprised that Ms. Yates was a nurse? I know plenty of nurses that have just about every mental health diagnosis. It is not a diagnosis solely for the uneducated 'trailer trash' masses. Having a mental health diagnosis doesn't preclude someone from being a healthy, happy and productive member of society.

YES!!! Very true. I'm surprised that these steryotypes about the mentally ill are so prevalent on a nursing forum.

[SkateBetty]

Okay....I read the title and sifted thru some of the responses and my first thought was. So what...she WAS a nurse? What difference does that mean?

It makes no difference, it's just a point of interest in the same way workers at Hershey would comment "Did you know Jeffrey Dahmer once worked at a chocolate factory" (which he did).

[Liddle Noodnik]

This isn't against you, Zoeboboey, but this is an example of something about all this that bothers me about this whole case. None of us were there when it happened and none of us really knows what any of these people were thinking. All of what we know is from what people have said and some things that they remember. Some things that are said may not be accurate or maybe used inaccurately. I can see someone seeing zoeyboboeys statement "Maybe they were trying to concieve again" and missing the maybe and stating it as fact "They were trying to concieve again." That does make it sound very different (and worse for the husband). There is so much heresay out there and this is how rumors get started.

I was sort of joking but you're right, it wasn't very appropriate, thanks!

[patricelynne]

You know, it's one thing to read the definition of psychosis in a textbook. I don't think it really sinks in until you sit with someone experiencing it, and hear their delusions and see them respond to or try to hide auditory or visual hallucinations. It is actually quite fascinating. Their delusions and/or hallucinations are just as real to them as we all perceive our reality to be.

I cannot describe how fascinating and heart breaking it was for me to watch my father in a psychotic state once when he took too much of a medication. He was convinced that it was 1970 (this was in 1999) and that he had another name. He was convinced that Johnson was president. As his psychosis worsened, his response to all questions was "red" or "blue" or "green" or "yellow". I had him hospitalized immediately. Lucky for him, he was in a safe place and didn't harm anyone. I find it laughable that some think someone like this is responisible for their actions during a psychotic state. It is the resonsibility of those around the psychotic person to protect the person and others, similar to how we protect a person having a seizure from harm.

I once nursed in a private psych hospital in NY; among others we received all the alcoholic and/or suicidal priests and nuns in that archdiocese---talk about sad. Damned if you do and damned if you don't! Anyway, I agree 100% with your observations. We were taught that the brain is the biggest chemical factory in the body. It shouldn't seem so outlandish that some of the time things don't always work as planned. Every other organ in the body has a huge list of diagnoses that might go wrong; why would anyone think the brain should/would be exempt from any number of equally dire problems? It is incredible to be the witness of active hallucinations, and the analogy of behavior during hypoglycemia was right on the money! Did anyone see Oprah's special on this subject, including attention to AY's tragedy? Check out her website on this. One woman's spouse was a surgeon and he never figured it out. Now his wife is dead and he's raising a daughter. I am amazed at the general lack of compassion among the majority I've read here. Believe me, I am not "a bleeding heart liberal." I worked in the prison system and in four ERs. I have seen involutional melancholia and catatonia twice in 12 years working all areas of maternity. Amazing how fast those two came around enough to speak, stop soiling themselves, ask about their babies, realize that they needed a shower and a meal--- after an IM of progesterone-in-oil. Also remarkable how painful PMS mental sx's reverse after progesterone suppositories are utilized. My point is that comprehending the biology behind hormone fluctuations and mental distress is just getting going. Study these subjects a bit more deeply before judging someone's neurochemical reactions to life.

[LydiaNN]

I understand that the husband made some bad decisions and did not do things he probably should have. However, I am not going to say he should be charged as an accessory. He was NOT the one that drowned them. His five children died. I'm sure there was denial (from many of these people) about the seriousness of her illness. I think that the psychiatrist who told her to "think positive thoughts" instead of treating her problem is a whole lot more guilty than a husband who wants children.

I know one of the psychiatrists recommended not having more children due to an exacerbation of the psychosis. But really, how many people always do what our doctors tell us to? Should you be guilty of a crime if you don't do what your doctor tells you to? Despite the terribleness of this case, I really don't think so.

I'm not one of the people who think her husband should be charged with a crime, but nonetheless, I do hold his stupidity against him. And I said in an earlier post that I believe the psychiatrist should lose his medical license.

[Liddle Noodnik]

We were taught that the brain is the biggest chemical factory in the body. It shouldn't seem so outlandish that some of the time things don't always work as planned. Every other organ in the body has a huge list of diagnoses that might go wrong; why would anyone think the brain should/would be exempt from any number of equally dire problems? ... My point is that comprehending the biology behind hormone fluctuations and mental distress is just getting going. Study these subjects a bit more deeply before judging someone's neurochemical reactions to life.

Very good points! Even tho I have had experience as a nurse and also as a patient, I still can be judgemental. I think it is partly because I still have trouble not judging MYSELF for having mental illness. Every other week my counselor has to go thru the whole thing about "It's not your fault, you have an illness" and what I can do to relieve the agony or help me function ... but I still, every other week, go there feeling so much shame that I can't function like I used to ...

[nursekare]

here's a good short summary of the case.

http://crime.about.com/od/current/p/andreayates.htm

personally, i think she was delusional, insane, and nuts as they come. her trouble seemed to escalate when a new psychiatrist took her off of the haldol and told her to "think positive thoughts."

any justice out there for her ex-husband rusty? let's just say i'm not fond of him and find him morally reprehensible.

well said!! couldn't have said it any better. this woman had a history of psychosis and was instructed to reconsider her desire to continue to have children in light of her considerable struggle with reality. yet, her husband, who made her the monster that she has become, allowed her to continue to give birth knowing that each subsequent pregnancy with the possibilty of post partum psychosis an ever present catalyst into the abyss of madness was allowed to walk away from his complicity in this entire matter.