And I continue my rant of MAs pretending to be nurses..

Nurses General Nursing

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Today I was at a patient's home and had to call the doctor. The answering service said "If you would like to speak to a nurse press 3" So I pressed three.

A girl came on, "This is Tina" and I said "Hi Tina I'm a nurse with so & so and your machine prompt says press three for a nurse. Are you a nurse"

Tina says "Yes. Well, an MA, same thing, go ahead"

Hmmm. What to do what to do?

May I also point out that the reason I am seeing this woman is for a major abdominal post op infection? When she came home from the hospital she developed a fever of 101 with redness and pus at the wound site. She called the service and the "nurse" told her to take an advil and come in for her scheduled appointment in a week.

This was the MA who I had spoken to. The doctor flipped when he saw the wound and she was immediately readmitted for iv abx and debridement. What is going on and who do I report her to?

Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.
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Originally Posted by Hygiene Queen viewpost.gif

"MA's are hired over nurses in clinics because nurses are not needed in the clinical setting"

This statement reflects the view from someone who has drunk the current kool-aid.

Medical practices are set up to best utilize the time/energy of the MD. In an effectively-run practice, the initial encounter with the patient in any given office visit is used to perform an assessment. That assessment allows the MD to quickly perform his/her own assessment and come to a diagnosis/treatment plan.

When the initial assessment is performed by licensed personnel, the MD has a basis for building his/her treatment plan. When that "assessment" is performed by an MA or other ancillary personnel, the MD only receives a listing of meds and ailments as given by the (notoriously unreliable) patient. There can be no clinical evaluation by the MA because he/she is not qualified to assess - simply to list.

Nurses are indeed needed in the clinical setting - but only by those who value their patients.

Medical assistants are not doing assessments. They are simply getting vitals and writing down what the patient tells them why they are there. The doctor does the assessment in the clinical setting. If you think health care is expensive now, it would only cost more if they had a nurse in the clinical setting to do an assessment that the doctor is going to do himself. Have you worked in the clinical setting? Its like night and day to the hospital.

"It would be economically ignorant to hire a nurse over an MA in a medical office...why pay a nurse $20 something an hour for something a MA could do for $10 or less?"

Again, a currently popular yet short-sighted viewpoint. It is not what the RN/LPN does, it is what he/she knows. Of course an MA can take a blood pressure or a temp, but can she follow up on the findings and anticipate the next steps that the MD may require for further evaluation?

The MA can perform the basic steps of a UA, but can they analyze the results and effectively prepare for the MD's care plan?

My view point is not short sighted, and I find that to be a rude comment. I have past experience as CMA before becoming a RN so its not like I have no idea what I am talking about resulting in "short-sighted view points".

Considering that the average office visit is 15 mins there really is no point in a nurse being there to "anticipate" what the doctors care of plan is. There really isn't much anticipating in the family practice anyways; sure maybe in an outpatient surgical center; yes nurses need to be there for that, and nurses only. The doctor makes the decision and if it is applicable to the MA then she follows it out (fax Rx to pharm, make appointment for x-ray) ect. There are some things that the MA can anticipate, such as when there are leukocytes in the urine shown by the UA she has done...anticipate that the MD will be writing an RX for an ABX, don't need a nurse for that. The doctor has to write the order anyways and its not coming from the clinic, it goes to the pharmacy; and if it does come from the clinic its one that has a pharmacy on site and then the pharmacist is dealing with it, not the nurse.

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medical assistants are not doing assessments. they are simply getting vitals and writing down what the patient tells them why they are there. the doctor does the assessment in the clinical setting. if you think health care is expensive now, it would only cost more if they had a nurse in the clinical setting to do an assessment that the doctor is going to do himself. have you worked in the clinical setting? its like night and day to the hospital.

my view point is not short sighted, and i find that to be a rude comment. i have past experience as cma before becoming a rn so its not like i have no idea what i am talking about resulting in "short-sighted view points".

considering that the average office visit is 15 mins there really is no point in a nurse being there to "anticipate" what the doctors care of plan is. there really isn't much anticipating in the family practice anyways; sure maybe in an outpatient surgical center; yes nurses need to be there for that, and nurses only. the doctor makes the decision and if it is applicable to the ma then she follows it out (fax rx to pharm, make appointment for x-ray) ect. there are some things that the ma can anticipate, such as when there are leukocytes in the urine shown by the ua she has done...anticipate that the md will be writing an rx for an abx, don't need a nurse for that. the doctor has to write the order anyways and its not coming from the clinic, it goes to the pharmacy; and if it does come from the clinic its one that has a pharmacy on site and then the pharmacist is dealing with it, not the nurse.

i agree with the original poster of this thread- its just not right for a ma or cna to refer to themselves as a nurse- that is misrepresentation.

however, this thread seems to be deviating off topic. i completely agree with hearts open wide - excellent post! :up:

and i would like to ask the poster who said:

"again, a currently popular yet short-sighted viewpoint. it is not what the rn/lpn does, it is what he/she knows. of course an ma can take a blood pressure or a temp, but can she follow up on the findings and anticipate the next steps that the md may require for further evaluation?"

according to your opinion then the health care system doesnt need mas.... is that what you are saying? and if not - what is it you think an ma should be allowed to do? if you dont think they belong in a clinical setting - and should be replaced by rns or lpns then where would the mas go and would that contribute to the nursing shortage?

i am all for the original post of this thread and have nasty experiences to back it up. but it sounds like your post is going off in an angry nurse vs. less educated ma/cna argument.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.

"and i would like to ask the poster who said:

"again, a currently popular yet short-sighted viewpoint. it is not what the rn/lpn does, it is what he/she knows. of course an ma can take a blood pressure or a temp, but can she follow up on the findings and anticipate the next steps that the md may require for further evaluation?"

according to your opinion then the health care system doesnt need mas.... is that what you are saying? "

absolutely not - that is not at all what i'm saying. i believe a well-run medical practice has a place for all types of medical personnel. and to the poster who doubted that i've ever worked in the office/clinical setting...i most certainly have. i know for a fact that i gave added value to my md's practice. i performed the initial assessment and as he came in to continue the assessment, i was out of the room preparing the treatments, scripts, injections, etc., that my own assessment had shown to be needed. as to the always-mentioned blood pressure/temp taking by the ma - i always prefer to take my own vitals. it's an important part of my assessment process and helps to get to know the patient.

in that particular office, the medical assistant was busy settling patients in rooms, making specialists' appts and f/u appts, preparing standard injections, stocking rooms, etc. not that an ma's position should be limited to those duties, i'm just listing my experience with ma's.

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Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.

I was an office nurse for over a decade and I always found a mix of RN's, LVN's, and MA's working together with the physicians and PA's/NP's as a team was the ideal situation. Heavily dependent on the quality of the individual.....

I have no problems with MA's and have worked with many I really admired and enjoyed. BUT, they are not nurses and should not portray themselves as such and physicians who support calling them "my nurse" do nurses a huge disservice and should be called to task for that in a way that financially penalizes them because that is what would work.

Just more crapola they get away with because nurses have never demanded the respect they deserve, and sometimes, sadly, have not earned it so that the MD's would clearly see the difference between a nurse and a medical assistant.

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good to know roser... it just sounded like you might have been leaning the other way. thanks for clarifying! :dncgcpd:

like others have said maybe a well rounded office would have a doc then an lpn or rn as his nurse and then a couple of mas to smooth out the rough edges. but life seems to far from perfect.

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