All of a sudden an ASN is no good anymore

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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I worked my behind off for this ASN. I'd been in college for years until then with the usual useless liberal arts degree because "if I did what I loved I'd never work a day in my life" and was completely useless when it came to getting a job. So when I started as a nurse I was beside myself with joy to have, finally, a real job.

Now fifteen years later, it appears the entire state is pushing for all nurses to have a Bachelor's- hospitals don't even interview without one.

I have experience. And no offense to those of you with advanced degrees, but you couldn't hold my penlight. I've been at countless BSN's side when they have to assist an MD and they fall apart- they can't understand a sterile field, they wonder whether they're actually supposed to hold open a wound, they don't know how to wrap a bandage. A wound vac is from a foreign planet to them.

And those Master's trained RNs, geez. I can see that in your graduate studies you never learned how to start an IV, nor an NGT, and you certainly don't know how to irrigate a foley. That last one becomes comical until that MSN is found trying to irrigate the bubble.

Forgive me for my insolence, oh advanced degrees. I have experience. If I were ill, I would want an experienced nurse, not a college kid who read books about nursing until he got all the answers right on the test. But as has always, always been the case in this country, experience means nothing. Only that little piece of paper. And I'm too darn old to go back to school. Say what you want, but there is a place where you want to enjoy life, and reading textbooks is not a part of that.

I just wonder whose pockets are being filled by making those degrees the law of the land.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I sense a contradiction.

Whether a BSN is justified or not, I think very few nurses at any level of education think that experienced ADNs should lose their jobs for lack of a BSN. The MBAs who make the staffing decisions are the ones who need to hear these arguments, but I doubt that many of them are reading this thread. Then there's the magnet status issue....

No contradiction.....disappointment. I think the new students coming out in this job market should get the four year degree....if they are starting their career. Me? I'm at the end. It has been said on this thread if you decide not to go back to school then suffer the consequences......Keep up or step out. :no:

Sigh......An ADN is a RN ; a BSN is A RN. We are ALL RN's I have never understood why it is necessary to sign the education degree after your title. Does that mean a ASN can sign J.Doe RN ASN?

Magnet? Magnet...... Another Nurse owned nurse driven sorority club so everyone can say their dress is prettier and from the better designer. My degree is higher than yours, my school is better than yours.......:bugeyes:

Never mind me..........I'm just feeling old and tired today.

We just need to respect each other and each others opinions. Right now the reality is there is a multi level entry to sit for the Boards. Those who pass all walk out that door Registered Nurses. Maybe we can all learn form each other that together we are a well versed wide experienced team and best to give the holistic care to our patients.

Specializes in Public Health, L&D, NICU.
I worked my behind off for this ASN. I'd been in college for years until then with the usual useless liberal arts degree because "if I did what I loved I'd never work a day in my life" and was completely useless when it came to getting a job. So when I started as a nurse I was beside myself with joy to have, finally, a real job.

Now fifteen years later, it appears the entire state is pushing for all nurses to have a Bachelor's- hospitals don't even interview without one.

I have experience. And no offense to those of you with advanced degrees, but you couldn't hold my penlight. I've been at countless BSN's side when they have to assist an MD and they fall apart- they can't understand a sterile field, they wonder whether they're actually supposed to hold open a wound, they don't know how to wrap a bandage. A wound vac is from a foreign planet to them.

And those Master's trained RNs, geez. I can see that in your graduate studies you never learned how to start an IV, nor an NGT, and you certainly don't know how to irrigate a foley. That last one becomes comical until that MSN is found trying to irrigate the bubble.

Forgive me for my insolence, oh advanced degrees. I have experience. If I were ill, I would want an experienced nurse, not a college kid who read books about nursing until he got all the answers right on the test. But as has always, always been the case in this country, experience means nothing. Only that little piece of paper. And I'm too darn old to go back to school. Say what you want, but there is a place where you want to enjoy life, and reading textbooks is not a part of that.

I just wonder whose pockets are being filled by making those degrees the law of the land.

Wow, judgmental and stereotypical much? Guess what, I have a BSN AND 15 years experience. And I'm a dang good nurse. I would rather have me than someone who holds education and her colleagues in such esteem. Those new nurses who can't do anyting (in your eyes)? One day they'll be the ones with experience. I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you didn't hit the floor the first day of your first job knowing it all. Or actually, you proabably did, at least in your own mind, and that's worse than being ignorant and knowing you need to learn.

Specializes in Public Health, L&D, NICU.
I have an ASN so I understand the frustration but I don't share your sentiment.

There are crappy and superb nurses at every education level. I won't downplay someone elses degree because I'm bitter or upset.

I agree! Some of the best nurses I've ever worked with were diploma nurses!

The contradiction is between "I agree that the new standard should be entry BSN," and, "I recommend that you get a BSN at the start of your career because it will facilitate your job search, even though a BSN adds no real value to your practice."

Specializes in Public Health, L&D, NICU.
I have to agree with where Patty is coming from. i too am a diploma/ADN RN, and an older experienced nurses- The discrimination didn't start with the ADN/Diploma Nurse, It started with the BSN's

It started when the BSN's first started coming into the hospital areas for jobs- that way way way back for me back into the early 1980's. I used to say to other ADN'diploma nurses I worked with- didn't their motheres ever teach them how to behave in some one else's living room? At that time there were very very few BSN's in the hospital- even amongst the managers. The BSN's even though out numbered, came in with superiority attitudes. Then gradually the managers were required to have BSN's and with that came strenght in discriminatory and derrogatory remards toward the ADN/diploma nurses; .to the point where it was done openly and meant to exclude the ADN/diploma nurse because "we were beneath" them/the BSN's- they let you know it also. But we, ADN's/diplomas, were the ones who were the skill and critical thinking backbones of those floors because we were taught it from jump street. The BSN's were funmbling and litterly tripping over their own 2 feet.

So you take years of this as a older nurse who has paid their dues and gathered their experience and then you come accross not only this superiority attutude but now there is wide spread age discrimination and the retoric "MUST have a BSN", BSN required' on 99% of all the job postings, Then you find that age is now a factor. I have even had this godd awful BSN co-worker talk down and demean me in front of others-I personally had this occur: I was verbally hammered one day by a co-worker BSN That's Nursing 101 sweetie, you know sweety- a BSN who is have my ages with only 1/3 of my years of experience. My only reply was: oh yes oh great one, I am a old nurse and now I all of a sudden know nothing" as she was now inventing her own chemotherapy- calling 5-FU--- 4 FU I didn't know whether to laugh in her face or spit in it. That is the feelings and reaction this kind of blind arrogance inspires in me.

So yes, I can appreciate from a very personal level - where patty is coming from. It is not us older nurses with experience that do not have the communication skills, it's these younger generation of BSN's who have no manners,no learned socialization process, no respect for ANYbody- including their patients. and especially the patient's families. I have many a time had to bail them out of something they said to a family member that offended.

The hatred and dismissive attitude goes the other way, too, though. My first day of preceptorship (that I had looked forward to for months), my preceptor BEGAN the conversation with "Don't think you're anything special just because you're getting a BSN." The woman didn't know me from a stray cat, how dare she. I have to say, though, that she thinks she's hot s&&t since she got HER BSN.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
The contradiction is between "I agree that the new standard should be entry BSN," and, "I recommend that you get a BSN at the start of your career because it will facilitate your job search, even though a BSN adds no real value to your practice."

After 20 years at the bedside of critical care/Trauma flight/Emergency medicine and after already being the Director or ICU/CVICU/Cath Lab and ED (consolidated into one) and opening the first open heart unit at the facility........it added nothing.

For someone starting their career it is probably the strategic move in the current job market.

Specializes in Public Health, L&D, NICU.
It's on the name tag ;)

Not where I am. At my hospital, ADNs outnumber the BSNs, even among the new hires. And we aren't allowed to put our degrees on our badges, just "RN."

LPN used to be a one year certificate.There are still bridging programs in Ontario for those who want the diploma.

Lori, the one year certificate involved nearly 14 months and did four academic semesters back to back with usually about ten days off between semesters. In Alberta, Certificate PNs were "granfathered". The diploma involved only the addition of university transfer Arts classes, which the bulk of "certificate" LPNs already had. CLPNA refused to grant "diplomas" to LPNs who could document that they already had the "new" liberal arts classes through previous degrees or diplomas.

Diploma students no longer have to face seven days off between semesters and that's how they stretched the course length as well.

This entire post is very scary and confusing to a person in my shoes. I have just started an ADN program and I hope to do very well at it and find myself a good job. I do not know if I will go any farther in my education simply because I have an associate degree in Medical Assisting already made me decide I wanted very much to go into nursing. I hope that there will be a spot out there for me somewhere!

Specializes in Public Health, L&D, NICU.

I'm still amazed at the idea, that seems to be taken at face value, that new grad BSNs have fewer clinical skills than the ADN new grads. In our area, we have 3 ADN schools and 1 BSN. The most any ADN from one of these schools is required in preceptorship is 90 hours. The BSN program requires 215 and encourages the students to go over and above if they can. I have precepted students for years (in L&D) and 90 hours is barely enough time to scratch the surface. But, my BSN girls are running deliveries (with me hovering quietly in the background) by the time they leave. And NONE of my students have ever come to me with well-established skills. I've had them from both degrees come to me never having started an IV or a Foley.

After 20 years at the bedside of critical care/Trauma flight/Emergency medicine and after already being the Director or ICU/CVICU/Cath Lab and ED (consolidated into one) and opening the first open heart unit at the facility........it added nothing.

For someone starting their career it is probably the strategic move in the current job market.

So I think you're saying that, for a highly experienced nurse, a BSN offers virtually nothing over an ADN regarding one's practice, but someone with no experience might derive some benefits from the extra courses (and at least in some cases, more hours of preceptorship), and in any case, will help you land a job in many markets.

I can agree with that. :)

Specializes in ICU + Infection Prevention.

I'd wager that the OP's problem with getting a job is attitude, not a lack of BSN.

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