Agism in nursing?

TuesdaysChild · Nov 1, 2016

That was a pretty off the wall post. Would you like to go back through SCOTUS and it's history of defending Jim Crow laws? There is another phrase they throw around with that, and that is "institutional discrimination", which apparently is just fine with you as long as you run the institution.
Please though, use SCOTUS as your reasoning. While you are defending segregated schools, stealing of Indian land, and the internment of the Japanese give me the Constitutional reasoning behind it.
SCOTUS is made up of un-elected lawyers.
It would be one thing if you were saying "This is the law, I don't like it; but it is what it is". You are saying that the law is right, which is deplorable. AND, the law has not always followed the Constitution, which is what all of your 'logic' clearly points to. Hence your advocacy for Jim Crow.
You think skin color, genitalia, and where you choose to put that genitalia is grounds for preferential treatment. I do not.

Sir, I'm not trying to upset you, and if I have, I apologize for that (also for comparing you to my 3yo neice. That was uncalled for). Before it goes too far afield, the whole point is that concerns like the original poster has about discrimination are very real and very legitimate. The protected class definitions and the law that I briefly explained comes straight out of Title VII and its precedent cases (more famously known as the Civil Rights Act) that was advocated by Pres. LBJ in conjunction with civil rights leaders like MLK and ultimately passed into law by the legislature--all elected officials--who obviously believed that such a law was necessary because clearly the American public was not willing to enforce equality on its own. Kind of like when kids won't play fair, don't be surprised if you don't like the rules when mom and dad have to come in and settle it. So you see, explaining how Title VII works in no way equates to defending Jim Crow (or stealing native land?? :down: ). If anything it's the opposite. I don't know how you're fitting that square peg into a round hole.

If you'll notice, I've not expressed much in the way of my own opinion except to say that years ago before I knew better I felt the same way you do, but that my experience on actual EEOC cases seeing and hearing documentary and testimonial evidence proved me wrong and that employment discrimination based on "isms" really does go on and is pretty common. Other than that, I mostly just explained why your theory about why Ruby's husband might have been promoted over her wouldn't be the case from an EEOC/legal perspective. Not sure how my explaining how TitleVII/CRA works relegates me to a leaky house defending Jim Crow and Japanese internment, but hey, it's your world. I'm just living in it.

Whether I believe the Civil Rights Act is right or wrong is my prerogative, as it is yours. You're free to form a special interest group to petition the legislature and try to have it repealed. We still live in a day and age where there's an actual group whose goal is to repeal the 19th Amendment (women's right to vote), so who knows, maybe you'll all win and finally get things back the way they used to be.

HarleyGrandma, RN, EMT-B · Nov 1, 2016

Really good points about projecting a younger, more fit image. As an older student myself I have begun eating healthier and working out, not only to help in ultimately obtaining a job, but also performing it better! I've found the stress of nursing school to be a great dry run on how to best handle the physical and emotional stress too. Being physically fit also can go a long ways toward protecting your body from additional harm on the job.

Zooey72 · Nov 1, 2016

At least you are trying to defend your argument with a primary source like the Constitution; which is better than saying "the court said it was this way so I win". Whether it be Roe vs. Wade or Citizens United vs FEC everyone thinks the court got it wrong somewhere (just picked those 2 out of the blue, and left or right; odds are someone will disagree with one of them). My point with Jim Crow and the rest of it. is if the only argument you need to win a debate is whatever decision the Supreme Court has made than those issues were covered by the court, and that is the measure you were using to defend your point of view. I think we can all agree the court got it wrong on those topics.

Anecdotal evidence does not mean much to me, and your old job makes your view on it biased. It would be like a nurse seeing that a huge amount of her patients smoke and have diabetes, and from that comes to the conclusion that 75% of the people in this country are that way. (meaning people who do/have those things tend to have more hospital visits. I doubt given your job people just showed up and said 'all fine here, just checking in')

As far as voting rights go, I have no idea where that came from (big strawman argument). You used SCOTUS to defend your position and than shifted to... I am not sure what that is to be honest. The court has defended institutional discrimination that I have described for years (Gutter vs Bollinger). I am coming from the perspective of someone who could have benefited from it (I got it, I just didn't need it), and I say it is wrong.

Before I started nursing school I was a cable installer. Out of 100 or so people, there was not 1 female. That is not to say that my company didn't want to hire women, women just didn't want that job. After 5 years a female attempted to get the job, but part of the job is you have to climb the pole. I will be the first to say that when you start pole climbing it can be a bit scary, and not everyone (male or female) makes it. They were so desperate to get a female on the team that the instructor (who had to let go 3 other guys go who couldn't do it) was literally right behind her shoving her up the pole with his head on her rear end. I fail to see how her genitalia warranted her getting additional assistance, and in fact had she gotten the job she may have fallen off the pole and hurt herself. (I know, this is anecdotal evidence as well; but companies are incentivized by the government to do this kind of nonsense).

As to the poster with the ex-husband who got a promotion and not her; did you ever think to ask if the person who decided to promote was a man or a woman? May have been a man, but given we are talking about the nursing prof. there is an excellent chance 'he' was a 'she'.

PANYNP · Nov 4, 2016

If you are sixty years old, you are sixty years old. Don't be surprised if you are treated as such. FWIW, I faced age discrimination when I was 42 and have dealt with that kind of treatment ever since. There is no way I am going to return to 22, so I just have to put up with it.

I'm 61 years old. How should I expect to be treated? As a nurse with experience and wisdom, or a liability?

Geeze.

AliNajaCat · Nov 4, 2016

See #11 in this thread. Being an older person, male or female, can be an advantage in nursing. https://allnurses.com/general-nursing-student/nursing-school-at-762419.html

Ruby Vee, BSN · Nov 4, 2016

I'm 61 years old. How should I expect to be treated? As a nurse with experience and wisdom, or a liability?
Geeze.

Depends upon where you work, I guess. I'm treated as a nurse with experience and wisdom, but my younger co-workers also treat me as an old lady who needs help with certain physical tasks. I have awesome co-workers.

sop832 · Nov 6, 2016

Depends upon where you work, I guess. I'm treated as a nurse with experience and wisdom, but my younger co-workers also treat me as an old lady who needs help with certain physical tasks. I have awesome co-workers.

It took me a while to learn to accept my physical limitations, and to say, "thank you" when someone younger/stronger offers to lift a patient or a heavy basket of instruments or a traction setup ( I work in an OR). I resented it at first, but I decided to accept the offer in the spirit in which it is intended. I intend to retire in 5 years, not go out on disability from trying to show that I can do anything that anyone else can. And I, also, am 61.

VegGal, RN · Nov 11, 2016

How interesting. A man is tired of "isms." Haven't suffered any racism? As a white male, you're in the most privileged class in the world. Of course you're "tired of isms."

The most privileged class in the WORLD? Really? I'm a person of color, and I don't look at the White male as the "most privileged class in the world." While males do NOT make up the majority of the world population. Also, just FYI even in the US, the Hispanic population is quickly outgrowing the White population.

As far as nursing, show me ONE scholarship that's reserved for WHITE MALES or WHITE FEMALES, vs those of us who are of color.

Having said that, I'm aware of men in nursing making more money than women, but that's MEN in general, not just White males. I'm tired of all the "isms" in our society as well. We've become too politically correct for our own good, and no one can speak their minds and be honest about something without offending others.