I wrote this as a reply to a question regarding LPN to RN. I decided to repost it here for those interested. My intent is to provide advice to help nursing students and new grads enter the job market.
My name is Linda and I'm a manager. I found this thread and site by accident while doing a web search. I wanted to add a few notes in case the OP is still checking replies. I started as an RN in the early 90's and have been a manager since 2000. I have seen hiring booms (like the "nursing shortage" a few years ago) and times when the only RN's hired are from within. Right now is a very tough time to be a new grad. Everyone blames the economy but that is only part of the reason. The other equation is the sheer number of nursing grads. A few years ago when hospitals couldn't staff enough nurses, schools capitalized on this by luring new applicants into nursing programs and boasting the extremely high placement rates of nursing grads. That was true of students graduating at that time. However, there are far too many new grads than there are openings for them. If you live in any fairly large metropolitan area (I'm in a city of approx. 2 million), chances are you have a network of community colleges with nursing programs. Add to that at least one to three universities. Then add in the for-profit schools (Bryman, Apollo, etc) and hospital training programs, and there could be well over a thousand new grads each graduation period.
The hospital system where I work is one of the largest in the nation and we have facilities in 7 states. Since last spring, we have not hired any new grads and the openings we have are mostly filled by internal applicants who have continued their education to attain RN licensure. if you are considering going to school for LPN or RN, let me give you my most valuable piece of advice: I would suggest you go the LPN>RN route first. Why do I say this? Because as an LPN, you can gain licensure and begin working much sooner (years sooner) than someone pursuing an AS RN degree, not to mention someone working towards their BSN. This will give you two advantages in the job market. You will be gaining valuable work experience while the AS/BSN student is sitting in class. You will also be establishing a work history in a healthcare setting as an LPN, earning income along the way, and you can still continue in an LPN to RN bridge program if you still find that nursing is the right fit for you.
If you were applying at my hospital, and I read on your app that you worked as an LPN for a number of years while completing your bridge program, I would hire you over someone with a BSN and little or no experience. No question about it. I've hired nurses with exactly that scenario many times. Don't let people fool you into thinking that just because you go the BSN route, you have a better chance of getting hired. BSN is valuable if you want to get into management or supervising at some point, but to a hiring manager, in terms of new grads an RN is an RN. I can tell you stories from applicants who have gone into many thousands of dollars in debt getting their BSN, and can't find a job. This desperation comes across in some of the postings on this site, and even more glaring when an applicant is sitting in front of me (or in phone interviews). And yes, having a good GPA in nursing school is good, but still won't convince me to hire you over someone with more experience. There are many people who excel in the classroom yet can't apply any of that knowledge to actual work settings, or fold under the stress of the job. Another thing that hiring managers look at is the amount of time since you graduated. It is an unfortunate reality that the longer it takes for a new grad to find a job, the less desirable that person becomes. The primary reason is because the grad has not been using their skills all that time, and we all know how easily some information can be lost when not used.
Please understand that I am not putting anyone down nor am I discouraging anyone from furthering their education. I probably wouldn't have been where I am had I not continued on to earn my M.S. But there is so much misinformation and speculation (about 99% of which is from other students and new grads, or floor nurses with no management/hiring experience) that I wanted to give a few words of wisdom to those contemplating nursing school or about to complete a program.
OP: good advice and thank you for sharing your point of view.
Everyone else: while I'm not knocking the OP, here is a grain of salt to take with her point of view regarding doing LPN first.
I went to school with an LPN who had 18 years' experience and was doing the LPN-RN bridge. While I'm sure the OP would have snapped her up in an instant, most of the facilities in our area would not hire her as a RN because she lacked a year's experience as an RN. This included the hospital that she worked the last 6 years at as an LPN. They knew that she was a great nurse and everyone she worked with gave glowing references, but they also told her they could not offer her an RN job without that experience. As far as new grad RN jobs went, her LPN experience netted very little for her there too.
It took her going out to get a RN job in an LTC for a year, during which she still worked as an LPN at her original facility. After she got that year's RN experience, then her hospital was willing to offer her an RN position.
While you give good advice, it doesn't necessarily hold true for all situations. First of all, the peaks and troughs of the nursing profession have been around since the beginning of time. It was the exact same situation when I graduated in 95' and will always be that way, although there weren't as many people back then. Getting experience is a great idea but becoming an LPN isn't necessarily the way to go, at least here in Ga. Being an LPN first may have been the thing 20 yrs ago but a lot of hospitals won't even hire LPN's around here-They won't even look at you with less than a BSN at a lot of hospitals in Ga. Therefore, getting an LPN license may be a complete waste of time.....Just my experience over the last 18 yrs. I actually got a job as a nurse tech while in nursing school and that shot me way ahead of the other 60 students.
While you give good advice, it doesn't necessarily hold true for all situations. First of all, the peaks and troughs of the nursing profession have been around since the beginning of time. It was the exact same situation when I graduated in 95' and will always be that way, although there weren't as many people back then. Getting experience is a great idea but becoming an LPN isn't necessarily the way to go, at least here in Ga. Being an LPN first may have been the thing 20 yrs ago but a lot of hospitals won't even hire LPN's around here-They won't even look at you with less than a BSN at a lot of hospitals in Ga. Therefore, getting an LPN license may be a complete waste of time.....Just my experience over the last 18 yrs. I actually got a job as a nurse tech while in nursing school and that shot me way ahead of the other 60 students.
LOL, or an ADN/RN anyway. LPN is useless whoops to jump and fit in your schedule. As an Industrial Engineer, I did not need to dig ditches for 20 years to tell you expertly that it is not good for your back :-) And I don't need to wipe buns and expose myself to nosocomial diseases without being properly educated (microbilogy) since it is reported by one source at least to be the 4th leading killer in the US.
LPN's rationalize their wasted time and wages OR want to circumvent high GPA entry barriers. And with an LPN job, they will have a lower GPA in RN school (a significant number of them at least). There are brilliant LPN's who fit it in their schedule, but even they pay for it in a hectic schedule that closes their eyes to opportunity that passes them by while they are wiping buns.
ADN GPA entry averages are near 3.90, and bridge students entry GPA's are closer to the minimum 2.70 at my school. However, LPN does say you will accept lower wages at harder work, so you will definitely receive low ball offers quickly (like this thread's author may have been trying to dupe unsuspecting people or route them into a time consuming schedule of needless certifications and work schedules). I almost did it, so it is conceivable: but not optimal by no means in potential development of a holistic RN, in the name of Florence Nightingale.
So although I respect LPN's working in death homes, please do not act like your low grades and experience 'level' raises your worth above others who achieve more and have more potential in the hight tech world of tomorrow. Florence was a scholar, and not a hiney wiper! No disrespect to ANYONE, but for many average students, LPN may suck them in and keep them LPN forever, since there is no way many can handle RN and LPN too. And if they do, they will never reach their full potential doing so. Good luck if you do, and be careful of nosocomial diseases in the hospital.
But in this season of holidays, in Christ's name, please don't spout that LPN's are superior or I may puke on you if within 3 foot of me. For an RN, a CNA certification with the new dual background checks is of more value to me personally. Rock on CNA"s!!
Wow - alot going on in this thread. Alot of info and speculation, fact and fiction. As other posters said, there is so much that goes into getting a job, no matter what job. I have a friend who did an ADN and just got a job after 6-8 months by moving to another area. Another who had clinical experience in international missions during her ABSN who got hired almost right out of school. I know 3 others at a major city hospital who got ASBNs and were admitted to the new nurse internship that the hospital accepts into twice a year. I know two others who went for BSNs, made friends connections at their clinicals and when it cam down to getting a job, those connections went to bat for her to get it as a new grad.
I just think there are so many factors and it is definitely dependent on where you live and the need in your area AND connections. I live in an area where connections are a big deal and people have already told me to meet as many people as I can volunteering during my prereqs so that I will have the base when I look for a job there in a coup[le of years. Advice is great but everyone should read it, apply it to their own situation and make the best decision for them.
LOL, or an ADN/RN anyway. LPN is useless whoops to jump and fit in your schedule. As an Industrial Engineer, I did not need to dig ditches for 20 years to tell you expertly that it is not good for your back :-) And I don't need to wipe buns and expose myself to nosocomial diseases without being properly educated (microbilogy) since it is reported by one source at least to be the 4th leading killer in the US.
LPN's rationalize their wasted time and wages OR want to circumvent high GPA entry barriers. And with an LPN job, they will have a lower GPA in RN school (a significant number of them at least). There are brilliant LPN's who fit it in their schedule, but even they pay for it in a hectic schedule that closes their eyes to opportunity that passes them by while they are wiping buns.
ADN GPA entry averages are near 3.90, and bridge students entry GPA's are closer to the minimum 2.70 at my school. However, LPN does say you will accept lower wages at harder work, so you will definitely receive low ball offers quickly (like this thread's author may have been trying to dupe unsuspecting people or route them into a time consuming schedule of needless certifications and work schedules). I almost did it, so it is conceivable: but not optimal by no means in potential development of a holistic RN, in the name of Florence Nightingale.
So although I respect LPN's working in death homes, please do not act like your low grades and experience 'level' raises your worth above others who achieve more and have more potential in the hight tech world of tomorrow. Florence was a scholar, and not a hiney wiper! No disrespect to ANYONE, but for many average students, LPN may suck them in and keep them LPN forever, since there is no way many can handle RN and LPN too. And if they do, they will never reach their full potential doing so. Good luck if you do, and be careful of nosocomial diseases in the hospital.
But in this season of holidays, in Christ's name, please don't spout that LPN's are superior or I may puke on you if within 3 foot of me. For an RN, a CNA certification with the new dual background checks is of more value to me personally. Rock on CNA"s!!
While I may have worded it differently, there is a lot of truth in this. I've seen quite a few LPN's over the years never get past LPN status, do the same work as an RN and never get the pay. Why wipe butts for $15/hr. when you can get payed to do it for $30?!!!!!! It seems that a lot of people get caught up in the here and now about making money and lose sight of the big picture...."I can't afford to go back to school" or "I don't have time." They get caught up in the rat race and never get any further. Personally, I think there will be a day soon where LPN's don't exist anymore-the same trend with a lot of professions. I used to work with an excellent LPN but she had been one for 30+ yrs and, for some reason, never got any further. I was always in charge of her and it always botherd her. I've seen that situation more than once.
Specializes in Interested in Oncology and/or Pediatrics.
...LPN's rationalize their wasted time and wages OR want to circumvent high GPA entry barriers. And with an LPN job, they will have a lower GPA in RN school (a significant number of them at least)...
That's an interesting point, actually. I'm getting ready to go into my second year of ns right now, and from what I've seen so far, those with prior medical experience are having more trouble than those of us who have no experience. They get so set in their ways of how to do things in the real world that they can't do the book work; and it's not just LPN's, it's paramedics and CNA's as well.
LOL, or an ADN/RN anyway. LPN is useless whoops to jump and fit in your schedule. As an Industrial Engineer, I did not need to dig ditches for 20 years to tell you expertly that it is not good for your back :-) And I don't need to wipe buns and expose myself to nosocomial diseases without being properly educated (microbilogy) since it is reported by one source at least to be the 4th leading killer in the US.
LPN's rationalize their wasted time and wages OR want to circumvent high GPA entry barriers. And with an LPN job, they will have a lower GPA in RN school (a significant number of them at least). There are brilliant LPN's who fit it in their schedule, but even they pay for it in a hectic schedule that closes their eyes to opportunity that passes them by while they are wiping buns.
ADN GPA entry averages are near 3.90, and bridge students entry GPA's are closer to the minimum 2.70 at my school. However, LPN does say you will accept lower wages at harder work, so you will definitely receive low ball offers quickly (like this thread's author may have been trying to dupe unsuspecting people or route them into a time consuming schedule of needless certifications and work schedules). I almost did it, so it is conceivable: but not optimal by no means in potential development of a holistic RN, in the name of Florence Nightingale.
So although I respect LPN's working in death homes, please do not act like your low grades and experience 'level' raises your worth above others who achieve more and have more potential in the hight tech world of tomorrow. Florence was a scholar, and not a hiney wiper! No disrespect to ANYONE, but for many average students, LPN may suck them in and keep them LPN forever, since there is no way many can handle RN and LPN too. And if they do, they will never reach their full potential doing so. Good luck if you do, and be careful of nosocomial diseases in the hospital.
But in this season of holidays, in Christ's name, please don't spout that LPN's are superior or I may puke on you if within 3 foot of me. For an RN, a CNA certification with the new dual background checks is of more value to me personally. Rock on CNA"s!!
I hope this is your sense of humor showing. So, are you telling me that LPN's who (like me) that graduated with honors are going to scrape by in RN school? I certainly have more experience than a CNA who attended shcool for a month! Don't tell me that you are a CNA who thinks they are better than the nurses that supervise you?.....then there is a good reason for that! Use universal precautions and you won't be bringing home nosocomial infections. Going the LPN route, should one so chose to do so, isn't useless. And when one gets their RN, they should learn the art of negotiation, and learn the wages for their experience level. If their are LPN's out there who chose not to go on and get their RN, and like their job, then who cares. Not everyone wants to work in a hospital....and not all LPN's are destined to work in "death homes." Like I said, LPN's do their research......there is other jobs out there for LPN's than just in LTC. And it is microbiology.....
If a poster is an LPN and wants to get their RN, nothing should stop them. Anyone can get an educational loan. Being stuck with a loan and having to pay it back is a whole other ball game.....
Oh, and if you puke on me, I may just throw it back at you.
Oh, and if you puke on me, I may just throw it back at you.
Please don't, due to your probabilistic nosocomial infections :-)
All I am saying is I'm tired of the LPN professed expertise, where it only helps one semester in RN ADN program. The fact is many take the LPN route just to skirt ADN admission GPA standards. Its hard to make all A's and most LPN's can't do it, although there are brilliant ones who take this route. It is a greedy heuristic which entraps many due to the working requirements make RN school less likely for most. And even the ones who CAN do it, learn less and don't make the most of the RN educational opportunity. But seriously, you can wipe my buns any time.
Admittedly, I almost did it, but things happened that I knew God was telling me to do otherwise. Sometimes I don't know why, but listening to my Spider Senses pays off. And that goes all the way through school every twist and turn. My first 4 degrees experience has built me a learning curve, not to mention my engineering education and experience taught me how to think and problem solve, which are more prerequisite to Critical RN thinking than wiping buns for X years or taking the LPN route to circumvent high GPA admission standards. But I respect every one as a rule, especially LPN's. Just don't harp on illogical stuff wasting my time listening, over and over and over...
Please don't, due to your probabilistic nosocomial infections :-)
All I am saying is I'm tired of the LPN professed expertise, where it only helps one semester in RN ADN program. The fact is many take the LPN route just to skirt ADN admission GPA standards. Its hard to make all A's and most LPN's can't do it, although there are brilliant ones who take this route. It is a greedy heuristic which entraps many due to the working requirements make RN school less likely for most. And even the ones who CAN do it, learn less and don't make the most of the RN educational opportunity. But seriously, you can wipe my buns any time.
Admittedly, I almost did it, but things happened that I knew God was telling me to do otherwise. Sometimes I don't know why, but listening to my Spider Senses pays off. And that goes all the way through school every twist and turn. My first 4 degrees experience has built me a learning curve, not to mention my engineering education and experience taught me how to think and problem solve, which are more prerequisite to Critical RN thinking than wiping buns for X years or taking the LPN route to circumvent high GPA admission standards. But I respect every one as a rule, especially LPN's. Just don't harp on illogical stuff wasting my time listening, over and over and over...
:nurse:
Ok so I guess I don't understand where you get the idea that many take the LPN route to circumvent the ADN admission GPA requirements. In the ADN program, in some states, after the first year, you can take boards to be licensed to work as an LPN while you finish your last year of RN school. If you are to just get the LPN first, and then go to get a 2 yr RN, none of the LPN courses are counted toward your RN.....mine weren't. My GPA was based on the micro, A & P, chemistry, math, etc, but not the actual LPN courses I took. I took the LPN route because the RN schools were backlogged and I didn't want to wait 2-3 years on a waiting list. AND I wanted NURSING experience, not bun wiping experience. I do that now with my kids, LOL! But places are different, and circumstances are different for different people. The OP was stating in general, how hiring managers work and what they look for. However, they also work FOR whatever facility, etc., and hire who they are TOLD to hire. And some are not even RN's. So you see the advice from her POV and the POV of other nurses and CNA's. You have little faith in "LPN expertise" because you don't know what they are taught, you only know what RN's are taught. A seasoned LPN may not have the book smarts as a new RN but most have experience that is not taught in books. Critical thinking is taught from the first day of class. Some LPN's use that to their advantage, others ask the RN because they may be lazy and decide it's easier to ask rather than research and try to learn why they are doing what they are doing. But, that is just my opinion. I like to learn and ask questions if I can't find the answer on my own. My findings have been such that usually when I ask a new RN a question their response is "I don't know," So....
2ndyearstudent, CNA
382 Posts
Thanks for the real life advice. I'm having a good time getting shelled for passing it on.