Advice to nursing students from a hiring manager

[Linda328]

I wrote this as a reply to a question regarding LPN to RN. I decided to repost it here for those interested. My intent is to provide advice to help nursing students and new grads enter the job market.

My name is Linda and I'm a manager. I found this thread and site by accident while doing a web search. I wanted to add a few notes in case the OP is still checking replies. I started as an RN in the early 90's and have been a manager since 2000. I have seen hiring booms (like the "nursing shortage" a few years ago) and times when the only RN's hired are from within. Right now is a very tough time to be a new grad. Everyone blames the economy but that is only part of the reason. The other equation is the sheer number of nursing grads. A few years ago when hospitals couldn't staff enough nurses, schools capitalized on this by luring new applicants into nursing programs and boasting the extremely high placement rates of nursing grads. That was true of students graduating at that time. However, there are far too many new grads than there are openings for them. If you live in any fairly large metropolitan area (I'm in a city of approx. 2 million), chances are you have a network of community colleges with nursing programs. Add to that at least one to three universities. Then add in the for-profit schools (Bryman, Apollo, etc) and hospital training programs, and there could be well over a thousand new grads each graduation period.

The hospital system where I work is one of the largest in the nation and we have facilities in 7 states. Since last spring, we have not hired any new grads and the openings we have are mostly filled by internal applicants who have continued their education to attain RN licensure. if you are considering going to school for LPN or RN, let me give you my most valuable piece of advice: I would suggest you go the LPN>RN route first. Why do I say this? Because as an LPN, you can gain licensure and begin working much sooner (years sooner) than someone pursuing an AS RN degree, not to mention someone working towards their BSN. This will give you two advantages in the job market. You will be gaining valuable work experience while the AS/BSN student is sitting in class. You will also be establishing a work history in a healthcare setting as an LPN, earning income along the way, and you can still continue in an LPN to RN bridge program if you still find that nursing is the right fit for you.

If you were applying at my hospital, and I read on your app that you worked as an LPN for a number of years while completing your bridge program, I would hire you over someone with a BSN and little or no experience. No question about it. I've hired nurses with exactly that scenario many times. Don't let people fool you into thinking that just because you go the BSN route, you have a better chance of getting hired. BSN is valuable if you want to get into management or supervising at some point, but to a hiring manager, in terms of new grads an RN is an RN. I can tell you stories from applicants who have gone into many thousands of dollars in debt getting their BSN, and can't find a job. This desperation comes across in some of the postings on this site, and even more glaring when an applicant is sitting in front of me (or in phone interviews). And yes, having a good GPA in nursing school is good, but still won't convince me to hire you over someone with more experience. There are many people who excel in the classroom yet can't apply any of that knowledge to actual work settings, or fold under the stress of the job. Another thing that hiring managers look at is the amount of time since you graduated. It is an unfortunate reality that the longer it takes for a new grad to find a job, the less desirable that person becomes. The primary reason is because the grad has not been using their skills all that time, and we all know how easily some information can be lost when not used.

Please understand that I am not putting anyone down nor am I discouraging anyone from furthering their education. I probably wouldn't have been where I am had I not continued on to earn my M.S. But there is so much misinformation and speculation (about 99% of which is from other students and new grads, or floor nurses with no management/hiring experience) that I wanted to give a few words of wisdom to those contemplating nursing school or about to complete a program.

[TnRN43]

Ok so I guess I don't understand where you get the idea that many take the LPN route to circumvent the ADN admission GPA requirements. In the ADN program, in some states, after the first year, you can take boards to be licensed to work as an LPN while you finish your last year of RN school. If you are to just get the LPN first, and then go to get a 2 yr RN, none of the LPN courses are counted toward your RN.....mine weren't. My GPA was based on the micro, A & P, chemistry, math, etc, but not the actual LPN courses I took. I took the LPN route because the RN schools were backlogged and I didn't want to wait 2-3 years on a waiting list. AND I wanted NURSING experience, not bun wiping experience. I do that now with my kids, LOL! But places are different, and circumstances are different for different people. The OP was stating in general, how hiring managers work and what they look for. However, they also work FOR whatever facility, etc., and hire who they are TOLD to hire. And some are not even RN's. So you see the advice from her POV and the POV of other nurses and CNA's. You have little faith in "LPN expertise" because you don't know what they are taught, you only know what RN's are taught. A seasoned LPN may not have the book smarts as a new RN but most have experience that is not taught in books. Critical thinking is taught from the first day of class. Some LPN's use that to their advantage, others ask the RN because they may be lazy and decide it's easier to ask rather than research and try to learn why they are doing what they are doing. But, that is just my opinion. I like to learn and ask questions if I can't find the answer on my own. My findings have been such that usually when I ask a new RN a question their response is "I don't know," So....

I have known many LPN's and have nothing but the utmost respect for them. But I had to reply to your saying "Ok so I guess I don't understand where you get the idea that many take the LPN route to circumvent the ADN admission GPA requirements." I can't count the number of posts I've read on THIS site telling people who have failed this class or that class in pre-reqs and now have basically no chance of getting into nursing school, to 'go the LPN-RN route-then you won't have to worry about it'. Haven't you read any threads that started with 'I have a 2.3 GPA and I can't get into NS' and end with 'LPN-RN will take care of it'? Do some looking around and I'm sure you'll find some. You know, EVERYONE can reach their dream if they just don't give up, right? At least that's what many are told here, even if your grades suck and you can't pass with better than a D in pre-reqs-just go the other way around!

[SE_BSN_RN, BSN]

I have known many LPN's and have nothing but the utmost respect for them. But I had to reply to your saying "Ok so I guess I don't understand where you get the idea that many take the LPN route to circumvent the ADN admission GPA requirements." I can't count the number of posts I've read on THIS site telling people who have failed this class or that class in pre-reqs and now have basically no chance of getting into nursing school, to 'go the LPN-RN route-then you won't have to worry about it'. Haven't you read any threads that started with 'I have a 2.3 GPA and I can't get into NS' and end with 'LPN-RN will take care of it'? Do some looking around and I'm sure you'll find some. You know, EVERYONE can reach their dream if they just don't give up, right? At least that's what many are told here, even if your grades suck and you can't pass with better than a D in pre-reqs-just go the other way around!

Well, I suppose, but I just don't see how you can scrape by with a D in pre-req's and get into any nursing school at all. Even LPN programs have a minimum GPA, too, and a D isn't it! NS aren't taking just the minimum GPA anymore, your GPA now is usually the first or second thing they look at. That gets rid of the waiting lists. Then again, if a person just manages to get by with a C or D average, they certainly won't make it through nursing school.....LPN OR RN. The thought never occured to me that people would just go LPN to RN just to get their RN. I originally started pre-req's for my RN which is why it sin't going to take me as long to get my BSN as it will with others. But, then again, it never occured to me to scrape by just to get into the BSN program, either. So if one can't get into NS, the GPA is a reflection of their committment and goals for themselves. Because we all know NS isn't a walk in the park, go to lecture, take notes, not study and graduate with honors.....or even graduate at all!

[opossum]

I wrote this as a reply to a question regarding LPN to RN. I decided to repost it here for those interested. My intent is to provide advice to help nursing students and new grads enter the job market.

My name is Linda and I'm a manager. I found this thread and site by accident while doing a web search. I wanted to add a few notes in case the OP is still checking replies. I started as an RN in the early 90's and have been a manager since 2000. I have seen hiring booms (like the "nursing shortage" a few years ago) and times when the only RN's hired are from within. Right now is a very tough time to be a new grad. Everyone blames the economy but that is only part of the reason. The other equation is the sheer number of nursing grads. A few years ago when hospitals couldn't staff enough nurses, schools capitalized on this by luring new applicants into nursing programs and boasting the extremely high placement rates of nursing grads. That was true of students graduating at that time. However, there are far too many new grads than there are openings for them. If you live in any fairly large metropolitan area (I'm in a city of approx. 2 million), chances are you have a network of community colleges with nursing programs. Add to that at least one to three universities. Then add in the for-profit schools (Bryman, Apollo, etc) and hospital training programs, and there could be well over a thousand new grads each graduation period.

The hospital system where I work is one of the largest in the nation and we have facilities in 7 states. Since last spring, we have not hired any new grads and the openings we have are mostly filled by internal applicants who have continued their education to attain RN licensure. if you are considering going to school for LPN or RN, let me give you my most valuable piece of advice: I would suggest you go the LPN>RN route first. Why do I say this? Because as an LPN, you can gain licensure and begin working much sooner (years sooner) than someone pursuing an AS RN degree, not to mention someone working towards their BSN. This will give you two advantages in the job market. You will be gaining valuable work experience while the AS/BSN student is sitting in class. You will also be establishing a work history in a healthcare setting as an LPN, earning income along the way, and you can still continue in an LPN to RN bridge program if you still find that nursing is the right fit for you.

If you were applying at my hospital, and I read on your app that you worked as an LPN for a number of years while completing your bridge program, I would hire you over someone with a BSN and little or no experience. No question about it. I've hired nurses with exactly that scenario many times. Don't let people fool you into thinking that just because you go the BSN route, you have a better chance of getting hired. BSN is valuable if you want to get into management or supervising at some point, but to a hiring manager, in terms of new grads an RN is an RN. I can tell you stories from applicants who have gone into many thousands of dollars in debt getting their BSN, and can't find a job. This desperation comes across in some of the postings on this site, and even more glaring when an applicant is sitting in front of me (or in phone interviews). And yes, having a good GPA in nursing school is good, but still won't convince me to hire you over someone with more experience. There are many people who excel in the classroom yet can't apply any of that knowledge to actual work settings, or fold under the stress of the job. Another thing that hiring managers look at is the amount of time since you graduated. It is an unfortunate reality that the longer it takes for a new grad to find a job, the less desirable that person becomes. The primary reason is because the grad has not been using their skills all that time, and we all know how easily some information can be lost when not used.

Please understand that I am not putting anyone down nor am I discouraging anyone from furthering their education. I probably wouldn't have been where I am had I not continued on to earn my M.S. But there is so much misinformation and speculation (about 99% of which is from other students and new grads, or floor nurses with no management/hiring experience) that I wanted to give a few words of wisdom to those contemplating nursing school or about to complete a program.

Thanks for the advice; I had posted in the managers' thread asking what I can do to get a job - I'm a new grad (BSN) 6 months out of school - my only experience is working wellness clinics as an independent contractor. Getting my LPN is not feasible now and it's too late for me to have in-school experience.

After reading your post, I've decided I'm going to give it another 6 months or so and then I think I may pursue another career...one where my talents will actually be valued. And who knows...if I'm lucky I can volunteer as an RN somewhere. But what a waste of time and money...

[Southern Magnolia]

For my part, I signed a contract with a hospital when I was a sophomore in nursing school where I agreed to work for them for a set amount of time dependent upon how many semesters of college they paid for me. I would suggest that new grads that are worried about securing a job post-grad consider the option of talking with nurse recruiters at a hospital about their scholarship programs (most of them are tuition reimbursement for employees/contractual agreements with students) and see who will give you the best deal. .

In my area, this is non-existant now. In fact, people who did this option a few semesters ago with a "guaranteed" job at the end have been released from their contracts because the hospitals don't have jobs for them.