Advertisement I just saw that made me mad!

Juwon · Mar 19, 2011

According to who?!?! I have seen a lot of BSN new grads and they "catch on" just as quick as ASN. And I have seen ASN new grads completly drown on the floor while the BSN new grads flourished and thrived. But your post is exactly the prevailing attitude of ASN nurses here on this site. I have seen posts like this over and over again, and it gets really old. Do you really think that getting an ASN makes you a better bedside nurse over a BSN?!? honestly....
I'm out.

i never said they make a better nurse because they are GENERALLY MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE. You can have all the knowledge in the world but make the wrong choices. BSN nurses shine in other categories more than ASN. According to who? You right its not really credible, but from my aunt who is a RN with a BSN and her nursing manager at the hospital she works at.

Trenia · Mar 19, 2011

Twenty years of experience against a new grad? That hardly seems like a fair comparison. I would opt for the BSN with 20 years exp.

GM2RN · Mar 20, 2011

i never said they make a better nurse because they are GENERALLY MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE. You can have all the knowledge in the world but make the wrong choices. BSN nurses shine in other categories more than ASN. According to who? You right its not really credible, but from my aunt who is a RN with a BSN and her nursing manager at the hospital she works at.

I'm not about to justify MY practice as an RN because I know what kind of nurse I am, but I will say this...

I've heard the the line before about "ADNs have better clinical and critical thinking skills" and it's pure crap. And if I didn't know it because logically it makes absolutely no sense, I know it because hiring managers across the country are trending toward hiring BSNs whenever possible, and in some cases won't even look at ADNs. If ADNs were so much better prepared to "hit the ground running" and had better critical thinking skills, that just wouldn't be the case.

Further, not 2 days ago I read a thread where a Canadian nurse posted that the minimum degree for an RN in Canada now is a BSN. This same nurse also stated that a BSN is now the minimum degree accepted in the UK, Austrailia, and parts of Europe. So, either hiring managers around the world are just plain idiots, or they know something that you don't. Personally, I'm thinking that most of the hiring managers know what they are doing when it comes to the ADN vs BSN debate.

allnurses Guide · Mar 20, 2011

Get a BSN, stop bashing BSN nurses.
This issue wont be a problem if there was only one way to become an RN instead of 5000 ways.
I dont see doctors getting an associate degree... in medicine.

But you see them getting their MD after 4 years of medical school when they usually go on to a residency. Each is 50% of the other- if length of time in school alone is what you are comparing apples to oranges with.

I never hear residents taking a scornful tone towards newly minted MDs.

On the other hand there seems to be plenty of scorn to go around right now is there is currently a thread almost identical in complaints - but it's the ADNs who are occupying that crucial cusp area where one little tip could cause countless numbers of patients to have the granddaddy of all bad outcomes.

GM2RN · Mar 21, 2011

But you see them getting their MD after 4 years of medical school when they usually go on to a residency. Each is 50% of the other- if length of time in school alone is what you are comparing apples to oranges with.
I never hear residents taking a scornful tone towards newly minted MDs.
On the other hand there seems to be plenty of scorn to go around right now is there is currently a thread almost identical in complaints - but it's the ADNs who are occupying that crucial cusp area where one little tip could cause countless numbers of patients to have the granddaddy of all bad outcomes.

I've read this post several times and I honestly have no idea what this means or the point you are trying to make. Could you help me out and clarify a little please?

allnurses Guide · Mar 21, 2011

GM2RN -I've read this post several times and I honestly have no idea what this means or the point you are trying to make. Could you help me out and clarify a little please?

I was responding to TickyRNs post:

Get a BSN, stop bashing BSN nurses.
This issue wont be a problem if there was only one way to become an RN instead of 5000 ways.
I dont see doctors getting an associate degree... in medicine[

Rather than repeat the claim that the patient of an ADN nurse has a greater chance of dying than does the BSN nurse- the comment implies that nurses let undereducated people loose on the public, and doctors don't. Most doctors finish a residency but they can be licensed right out of medical school. I probably shouldn't have responded to it at all because the training of nurses and physicians are different in so many ways a length of time comparison is just one factor of many others.

The "enough scorn to go around" was a reference to this thread:

https://allnurses.com/nursing-news/its-here-bsn-540363.html

Where if you simply switched the emphasis, you would think you were reading the same thread. This thread is more critical of the BSNs (can't hit the ground running, can't critically think, can't fill-in-the-blank quality). The other one is more critical of ADNs for many of the same reasons.

Several people in the pro-BSN thread made the assertion that ADNs give unsafe care, are less effective nurses, cause patient deaths and one who hoped we would all be BSNs soon to reverse the current trend of "countless RN-related deaths". That's what I was making a too dry reference to - the general tone grossly exaggerated the risk, and made it sound as though you may have a 50% greater chance of dying (tipping point) if your nurse didn't have a BSN. I was hoping to find some factual evidence of any of the supposed statements of fact contained in all of those replies.

Further, not 2 days ago I read a thread where a Canadian nurse posted that the minimum degree for an RN in Canada now is a BSN. This same nurse also stated that a BSN is now the minimum degree accepted in the UK, Austrailia, and parts of Europe. So, either hiring managers around the world are just idiots, or they know something that you don't.
Personally, I'm thinking that most of the hiring managers know what they are doing when it comes to the ADN vs BSN debate.

Just as we can't make side by side comparisons between medical school and nursing school - you can't do it with countries, either. Someone in the same thread mentioned that Canada has a "13th year" - I'm sure if you analyzed all of those it is a more complex task to compare than meets the eye.

I hope that clarifies my previous post - and if not please let me know. Thanks.

zeto · Mar 21, 2011

Im confused....

Let me admitt I am a pre-nursing student and have not started a nursing program yet, so I can't compare the difference between an ADN and BSN. I was under the impression that the only difference was the amount of time one spent in school in general, you know, total credits. Aren't the NURSING programs the same? We study for the same reason, to get an RN, and have to take the same test in the end, the NCLEX.

The only reason I am applying for a BSN program is because my nurse friends are advising me it may be easier to get a job here in so cal.

GM2RN · Mar 22, 2011

I was responding to TickyRNs post:
Rather than repeat the claim that the patient of an ADN nurse has a greater chance of dying than does the BSN nurse- the comment implies that nurses let undereducated people loose on the public, and doctors don't. Most doctors finish a residency but they can be licensed right out of medical school. I probably shouldn't have responded to it at all because the training of nurses and physicians are different in so many ways a length of time comparison is just one factor of many others.
The "enough scorn to go around" was a reference to this thread:
https://allnurses.com/nursing-news/its-here-bsn-540363.html
Where if you simply switched the emphasis, you would think you were reading the same thread. This thread is more critical of the BSNs (can't hit the ground running, can't critically think, can't fill-in-the-blank quality). The other one is more critical of ADNs for many of the same reasons.
Several people in the pro-BSN thread made the assertion that ADNs give unsafe care, are less effective nurses, cause patient deaths and one who hoped we would all be BSNs soon to reverse the current trend of "countless RN-related deaths". That's what I was making a too dry reference to - the general tone grossly exaggerated the risk, and made it sound as though you may have a 50% greater chance of dying (tipping point) if your nurse didn't have a BSN. I was hoping to find some factual evidence of any of the supposed statements of fact contained in all of those replies.
Just as we can't make side by side comparisons between medical school and nursing school - you can't do it with countries, either. Someone in the same thread mentioned that Canada has a "13th year" - I'm sure if you analyzed all of those it is a more complex task to compare than meets the eye.
I hope that clarifies my previous post - and if not please let me know. Thanks.

That helps. Thanks.

Just a comment about the last part. I didn't see the post you referred to on the other thread and honestly didn't analyze anything. Do you mean a 13th year pre-college?

Even considering that US and Canadian nursing programs may not allow for a good side-by-side comparison, I have to assume that a BSN in Canada is still more schooling than an ADN in Canada. Given that assumption, along with the Canadian nurse's assertion that Canada's minimum RN degree is now a BSN, AND that the US is trending in that direction, I believe my point still stands (not that I think you are necessarily disagreeing with me?).

Having said all of that, let me make it clear to everyone who might read this, that I am in no way saying that a BSN degree makes a better nurse. I think that it's what the PERSON who gets either degree does with it that is what makes the difference. My only concern was in debunking the myth that has been perpetuated in this thread that all ADN nurses have better clinical and critical thinking skills JUST by virtue of their degree. NOT SO!

allnurses Guide · Mar 22, 2011

GM2RN -- that's right! I wasn't disagreeing with you at all. I would tell anyone considering nursing to go with the BSN right away if at all possible. Especially at this time when the pool of applicants is so much larger. I don't buy into any of the general sweeping characterizations about both groups of people. It's impossible to say.

I don't know the particulars of the Canadian system, but someone on another thread detailed all the benefits given to aspiring BSNs - if someone would support the effort with dollars and paid time off it would make a huge difference I'm sure!

Since the assiciate nurses have usually gone on to make other things a priority, and perhaps with more pressing obligations like a house and saving for their children's college costs, it could be very disruptive to their lives to put too short a time window on the requirement for a BSN just to keep your job. How things will unfold in the future -we'll have to wait and see but we are certainly in "interesting times"! :) I think these last couple of years will be seen as a pivot point in nursing history textbooks of the future.

PColumbo · Mar 22, 2011

I agree, it is upsetting, but you know that you have the experience to care for your patient and that is what counts. I believe an RN is and RN whether you are an Diploma,ADN,BSN,MSN or Doctorate. Unless you are required to list your degree, how would a patient know the difference, unless you pointed it out yourself. I am a 3yr Diploma Nurse, but my badge reads RN. It still read RN when I was a hospital supervisor.:grad: