Disappointed

WestCoastSunRN, MSN, CNS · Sep 15, 2017

I totally agree with you, CardiacDork. APN has changed since I became a nurse 20+ years ago. It was always a goal of mine to grow and stretch into the role of APN someday. That was before it was a cool. Now I'm taking a good, hard look at whether I really want to do APN. I actually love bedside nursing and in my specialty (as I would think would be the case for most specialties), there is ALWAYS more to learn. In fact, one of MY passions is that bedside nurses will be patho/pharm-strong, thus making themselves effective advocates for the patient and trusted colleagues of the providers. I don't want to be mediocre. I don't want people in my profession (whether they be bedside, APN, case management, whatever) to be mediocre.

And I think going into a profession for the wrong reasons can result in mediocrity at best. I don't think APN is well understood -- even among nurses. Bedside nursing has become some unpleasant, but necessary stepping stone to a M-F, 9-5, six-figure salary. I don't think it's good. I don't have any answers for it. But I will say, in my area bedside nurses are educated and paid well. They are treated as colleagues with medicine, admin and the other disciplines. They are encouraged to pursue Masters/Doctorates (BSN is now required at every local system) -- but relative to other areas of the country, not so many are choosing to do so, and especially not so many are choosing APN. And my favorite.... they are smart, SMART nurses.

I can understand how the best and brightest nurses, in a work setting far less attractive than mine, would want to get out from under the thumb of a less-than-supportive system. Maybe part of the solution to not diluting the APN pool, is to work at keeping standards at the bedside HIGH by giving bedside nurses the tools they need to do their jobs well (staffing, education, admin support from top down, etc.).

APN shoudn't be about running away from something. Bedside nursing shouldn't be about checking off a box. The patients ..... and heck, the profession deserve better than that.

Atl-Murse · Sep 15, 2017

You are getting the game mixed up. Healthcare is a business model that needs to turn a profit. You think most MD spend eons in school to make average pay ? I hear you on the saturation but your reasons for ARNP is just as valid as those money hungry nurses.

LaurenceM · Sep 16, 2017

I dont think any of the reasons you listed are 'wrong reasons' for becoming an advanced practice nurse. Personally, I do admire those people who found nursing through a "calling" or whose "passion for the craft" drive them. I'm not one of those people. I love the 3 shifts a week schedule and the free time that comes with it, allowing me to either work per diem if I choose, or just spend the day with my dog. I do like the science and theory behind nursing practice, but I really dislike the back-breaking exhaustion I feel from floor nursing at times. My likes or dislikes towards the many facets of my job doesnt effect my productivity though. I get my job done, I smile as I do it, I interact well with patients, and I continue to grow and learn as a Nurse. So does it make me worse at my job or less qualified to aspire to advance my career because I'm not solely driven by a "passion to save the world"? I honestly dont think so.

Like the previous poster, I too agree with your statement on what seems like a future over-saturation of APRNs and the increased competitiveness this will create on job hunting or even applying to advanced programs.

In the end I say that if a person is capable of completing and also willing to do the work, who cares what their motivation is?

CardiacDork, MSN, RN · Sep 17, 2017

Laurence. I never said I believed that people should become APRNs to save the world, or any of the "its a calling" reasons.

Simply put I believe that many of the people I have personally encountered lack the scientific inquiry that I believe is necessary to become a successful provider. I've seen firsthand the material provided by the numerous online programs and it's laughable at best. Relying on pure memorization and regurgitation with no reliance on the why. I think THAT is far worse than people with little to no nursing experience entering the field. (Granted, I DO believe there should be an experience minimum requirement).

Unfortunately ignoring the "WHY" is not new to nursing.

The fact remains that people that could care less about diagnosing or treating are only switching to advance practice to get away from the bedside, in search of the "grass is really greener" and THAT is not okay in my opinion. Unfortunately it happens and WILL continue to happen so as long as these fluffy NP programs continue to pump out graduates, and the NP title will continue to be the laughing stock of the healthcare/medical community.

CardiacDork, MSN, RN · Sep 17, 2017

I also want to make a note that the MONEY does matter to me, very much so. Its not my ONLY reason for going into advance practice. I believe that I should be well compensated for my work because I have respect for my work ethic and knowledge. I believe NPs and CRNAS and so forth should not settle for mediocre pay and should keep pushing for higher salaries in exchange for their higher levels of knowledge. Obtaining certs, attending seminars, and becoming experts at what we do. Yes we have a "limit" as nurses, but let's keep pushing that limit and rightfully asking for the right amount of compensation.

I don't ever want to cheapen our profession. I am not called God to do this, and I refuse to take mediocre pay.

I just think that only going into it to make money is a bit laughable. I want to go into advance practice to be a skillful, knowledgeable provider that is compensated accordingly

HLeeFNP, NP · Sep 20, 2017

The fact remains that people that could care less about diagnosing or treating are only switching to advance practice to get away from the bedside, in search of the "grass is really greener" and THAT is not okay in my opinion. Unfortunately it happens and WILL continue to happen so as long as these fluffy NP programs continue to pump out graduates, and the NP title will continue to be the laughing stock of the healthcare/medical community.

I think there are several reasons that nurses are moving away from the bedside. We only have one life after all, and it is human nature to try to make it a happy one. Judging people because the values they hold are different from your own never improves a situation. I can forgive all that, however I absolutely disagree that NP's are "the laughingstock of the healthcare/medical community." It is a highly respected profession where I work.

allnurses Guide · Sep 20, 2017

Simply put I believe that many of the people I have personally encountered lack the scientific inquiry that I believe is necessary to become a successful provider. I've seen firsthand the material provided by the numerous online programs and it's laughable at best. Relying on pure memorization and regurgitation with no reliance on the why. I think THAT is far worse than people with little to no nursing experience entering the field. (Granted, I DO believe there should be an experience minimum requirement).
The fact remains that people that could care less about diagnosing or treating are only switching to advance practice to get away from the bedside, in search of the "grass is really greener" and THAT is not okay in my opinion. Unfortunately it happens and WILL continue to happen so as long as these fluffy NP programs continue to pump out graduates, and the NP title will continue to be the laughing stock of the healthcare/medical community.

Can I rant back a bit? Some of this is playing devil's advocate, but I have seen lots of posts lately hitting on some of these things.

First off, getting frustrated about the motivations of others is really an exercise in futility. It is no surprise that with increasing salary for NPs and PAs that talented people are starting to pursue those roles more directly, just as they have with medicine and law for decades. This isn't a "bad thing" for the profession necessarily.

Second, while everyone has opinions, not everyone has expertise. Four or five years ago now there was a study that showed that strength of opinion was inversely correlated with knowledge of the topic. There are some strong beliefs/opinions being expressed on these topics here and it oft seems that posters scarcely consider if they have the relevant experience/expertise to properly affirm those statements. The bias that exists here makes it difficult for many novice NPs; one of the biggest challenges a novice NP will face comes from other nurses, which really is a shame.

Third, if we are following the scientific method as an essential prerequisite, then we should consider the data rather than anecdotes.

Atl-Murse · Oct 20, 2017

. I've seen firsthand the material provided by the numerous online programs and it's laughable at best. Relying on pure memorization and regurgitation with no reliance on the why. I think THAT is far worse than people with little to no nursing experience entering the field. (Granted, I DO believe there should be an experience minimum requirement).
.

This is an issue I will agree with you. I know RNs graduating from everyone accepted Pork Belly University online FNP program without basic knowledge of common disease you learn in nursing school .

EStudent2b2010 · Dec 27, 2017

Wow...

Love this! Thank you

EStudent2b2010 · Dec 27, 2017

Can I rant back a bit? Some of this is playing devil's advocate, but I have seen lots of posts lately hitting on some of these things.
First off, getting frustrated about the motivations of others is really an exercise in futility. It is no surprise that with increasing salary for NPs and PAs that talented people are starting to pursue those roles more directly, just as they have with medicine and law for decades. This isn't a "bad thing" for the profession necessarily.
Second, while everyone has opinions, not everyone has expertise. Four or five years ago now there was a study that showed that strength of opinion was inversely correlated with knowledge of the topic. There are some strong beliefs/opinions being expressed on these topics here and it oft seems that posters scarcely consider if they have the relevant experience/expertise to properly affirm those statements. The bias that exists here makes it difficult for many novice NPs; one of the biggest challenges a novice NP will face comes from other nurses, which really is a shame.
Third, if we are following the scientific method as an essential prerequisite, then we should consider the data rather than anecdotes.

Wow. I love this...thank you.

elkpark · Dec 27, 2017

This reminds me of all the threads from nursing students (or would-be nursing students) bemoaning all the people who are going into nursing for the "wrong" reasons, reasons that the poster doesn't consider lofty or pure enough. Guess what? There aren't any "right" or "wrong" reasons. Everyone gets to make choices for her/his own life, for her/his own reasons.