Acceptance of online BSN (from ADN) degree by employers...

sharann, BSN, RN · Feb 19, 2004

I don't think an on-line RN degree would be acceptable, but most of us here are talking about our continuing educations(RN-BSN or MSN...) My Manager is currently getting her MSN online and no one at the hospital is batting an eyelash. The accredited programs are key. My program is Jacksonville University, Florida and I guarantee you it is A LOT of work to go online. The reading is the same, plus we write more papers and have weekly quizzes/exams. My lectures are streaming video, so I feel as if in a classroom (but stay in my P.J's!)

rhp123 · Feb 19, 2004

That actually releases some of my questions. In the state I live in, there are some nursing programs accredited by the state, including diploma, ADN, BSN, MSN, PhD. There are also other programs not accredited by the state, I was wondering what happened to graduates of the programs not accredited by the state, can they get licensed in the state?

I looked one more time, the non-accredited programs only takes RN-BSN, which means, the students get into the program already got licensed, so there is no further issue upon graduation of BSN.

For those attending U of Phoneix, just curious, how do you guys take clinical courses? Are you going to a hosiptal too? And how long for a course? How many clincial courses do you have? Or the program consist of all the research and theory courses?

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 19, 2004

Most of the RN to BSN programs take into account that you're RNs have plenty of clincal experience and there are no "clinicals". Which is quite nice. I've been an RN for many years, what do I need clinicals for. :)

RNPATL, DNP, RN · Feb 19, 2004

Most of the RN to BSN programs take into account that you're RNs have plenty of clincal experience and there are no "clinicals". Which is quite nice. I've been an RN for many years, what do I need clinicals for. :)

Actually Tweety .... in my course work we have three clinical classes which require a minimum of 40 hours of clinical time (with each course ... I think one course requires 75 hours of clinical). Of course, the clinicals are not like they were when we were in our ADN program .... they are more focused on assessment of family and patient, rather than learning basic skills. The entire curriculum is based on Orem's Self-Care Deficit Theory and the application of this theory in clinical practice. From my perspective, Orem's theory is pretty dated, given the way nursing has evolved today, but most of the exercises are good for learning, but not practical in today's clinical environment.

The clinical side of UoP's classes are very independent, but still required in order to graduate with the BSN and MSN.

Trauma Columnist · Feb 19, 2004

Patrick - you made my palms sweaty after mentioning Orem! Yikes! However, Patrick is right - there are three clinical courses, two with a 45 hour clinical requirement each and the leadership class which has a 20 hour requirement. They aren't hard to do - you just can't do them while you are working. And...UofP is fully accredited. (Boy - I wonder if I can get a tuition discount for the endorsement...hmmmm..)

Alnamvet · Feb 19, 2004

My only concern is that nursing is THE only health care profession where you can do an on line program...even if you are not already an RN; I have problems with this, and it brings to mind folks I use to know who had degrees from Ajax School of auto mechanics, or high school diplomas paid for with a money order for $10.00, and 50 Bazooka bubble gum wrappers. It says a lot about a profession when you are so in need of students, that you have to virtually, and I mean, virtually give away credentials, so long as the tariff is paid. I don't know of any PA, MD, RRT, RT, ST, SA, EMT, EMT-P, et al, that you can do on line. I know of one individual who did a bsn on line, and she stated that even if you didn't do all the "required" reading and "writing", so long as you did some of it, and most importantly, kept up with your "tuition", the degree was a given.

RNPATL, DNP, RN · Feb 19, 2004

My only concern is that nursing is THE only health care profession where you can do an on line program...even if you are not already an RN; I have problems with this, and it brings to mind folks I use to know who had degrees from Ajax School of auto mechanics, or high school diplomas paid for with a money order for $10.00, and 50 Bazooka bubble gum wrappers. It says a lot about a profession when you are so in need of students, that you have to virtually, and I mean, virtually give away credentials, so long as the tariff is paid. I don't know of any PA, MD, RRT, RT, ST, SA, EMT, EMT-P, et al, that you can do on line. I know of one individual who did a bsn on line, and she stated that even if you didn't do all the "required" reading and "writing", so long as you did some of it, and most importantly, kept up with your "tuition", the degree was a given.

I can certainly understand your concern about the program being a degree mill. I was concerned about this when I started looking for online nursing programs as well. I mean really .... I want to earn a real BSN, not one from a degree mill. When I discovered UoP, I was pleased to see that NLN approved their program and many companies endorse their graduates.

One thing you have to remember for the BSN program with UoP ... you have to be an RN already and you must be employed as an RN. UoP considers your nursing licensure as implied competence. I mean, they should ... the state you practice in considers you having met the basic competence to practice and as such, has issued your license.

I struggle, like you, with colleges that permit online learning from levels lower than the RN. I think the training in basic skills needs to be a big part of RN education and you simply can not learn these skills online. However, once you have your ADN RN, I think online education is very appropriate for the BSN level.

Patrick

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 19, 2004

Actually Tweety .... in my course work we have three clinical classes which require a minimum of 40 hours of clinical time (with each course ... I think one course requires 75 hours of clinical). Of course, the clinicals are not like they were when we were in our ADN program .... they are more focused on assessment of family and patient, rather than learning basic skills. The entire curriculum is based on Orem's Self-Care Deficit Theory and the application of this theory in clinical practice. From my perspective, Orem's theory is pretty dated, given the way nursing has evolved today, but most of the exercises are good for learning, but not practical in today's clinical environment.
The clinical side of UoP's classes are very independent, but still required in order to graduate with the BSN and MSN.

I stand corrected in saying "most". However, there are good accredited programs that don't have that kind of clinical time, if any. There may be some "clinical" time like "spend 8 hours in a female shelter and come up with a care plan for a homeless woman" or spend the day with a nurse administrator or something like that.

Those kind of hours you're talking about seem tough for someone who already is a working RN.

ascnbe, ADN, RN · Feb 19, 2004

The key question I found is, who will accept the credits should you decide to enroll in another program. If you get your BSN from an online university and decide to get your masters at Tulane, or Northwestern, do they recognize the programs credits. Not all universities accept credits all credits from other universities, but they should take most. If they take none, something is amiss.

RNPATL, DNP, RN · Feb 20, 2004

The key question I found is, who will accept the credits should you decide to enroll in another program. If you get your BSN from an online university and decide to get your masters at Tulane, or Northwestern, do they recognize the programs credits. Not all universities accept credits all credits from other universities, but they should take most. If they take none, something is amiss.

That is an excellent point, one for which I share. My original goal was to get my BSN through UoP and then transfer to a local university for my MSN and post graduate work in advanced practice. I was happy to discover that most all the local university systems here take UoP undergraduate credit without any problems. There are some issues with a few of the courses, but nothing that can not be argued and eventually accepted. It is the same as if you were transferring credits from another college. Now, as for other BSN programs, I can not speak to them, but I can for UoP.

It all comes down to crediability. When I graduate with my BSN, I want to know that the degree I earned is as valuable as the degree being issued by other colleges and universities. In my opinion, my UoP BSN is the same.

ascnbe, ADN, RN · Feb 20, 2004

I have some friends attending UoP here in LA. Years ago I checked into it and the credits were not recognized at the major universities here. It is my understanding that you are correct in that they have overcome that issue and are now transferrable to many recognized universities.

The issue with clinicals is one that puzzles me though. I have been a nurse for 9 years. I did clinicals in nursing school. I can not see why clinicals would be needed to go from ASN to BSN. The clinical aspect is not the difference in the degrees. I am actually not a big fan of the direction of education in fields like this. I think ASN is fine for a start in nursing, beyond that, one should be able to start to specialize. If I were to return for a BS it would probably be in computer science or some area that would enhance my nursing and give me diversity and a more rounded education. I know several nurses that have gone on to get law degrees. We could probably use more nurse attorneys to help us get this profession representation in the political arena. That of course is another issue.

New Castle Ken · Feb 20, 2004

the thread dealing w/online adn to bsn degree really peaks my interest. i do very well in self paced courses; took everyone that was available to get out of classroom time for my nursing pre-reqs! :chuckle
the one thing i wonder is how do employers look upon if your degree is an online degree??? i suppose i am troubled they would look at it as less worthy than an "in classroom hours" one????

if you choose a college that is both regionally and nursing accredited by agencies recognized by the department of education in washington, you will have no problems. most if not all online rn/bsn programs also have their regular students and have had a regular campus for years. the transcript and diploma will be the same as for them. the degree will not say online.