A surgeon's perception of nursing education.

[Grandy]

Hello everybody,

I have posted an article below that I found interesting, a surgeon seems to have a lot of issues with the fact that nurses are now trained in the university system and not under the old apprenticeship method. This article was published in The Australian on August 25, 2007. The Australian is a national newspaper owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation and is distributed throughout Australia and other countries.

I thought about posting this thread under the Australian nursing forum but I thought that this article raises issues that are relevant to nurses around the world. These issues include the relationship between the nursing profession and the medical profession and the dominance of the medical discourse in health care. Please see read the article below and share your feedback. :)

Nurses could make life hell or heaven. If you had a shift of experienced and sensible nurses then life was easy. The alternative was the nurse straight out of university, who saw herself as the custodian of quality, the barometer of good care in our hospital system. The majority of these nurses were bureaucrats rather than carers. These nurses were the new breed, the norm.

In today’s university nursing educational scheme...

Read article in its entirety.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22301244-5012694,00.html

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

I agree with a lot of what he says, but he shouldn't exempt physicians from his criticisms.

[Music in My Heart]

No one tells them (nurses) that they are actually the difference between life and death for some patients.

Interesting statement. From what I've read here, it seems that many doctors and laymen are the ones who fail to see that the nurses are "actually the difference between life and death for some patients." The nurses seem to be quite aware of the fact.

I notice that it's not the AMA and the various state medical associations who are pushing for mandated safe staffing levels. Who is it? It's the nurses!

I wonder if Dr. Khadra ever spends time advocating for nurses.

It also seems like he's on the receiving end of a fair amount of negativity from the nursing staff. One can only wonder how he's treated the nurses in order to engender that response from them.

I do have to say, though, that if the Australian universities are graduating nurses who don't realize the importance of minimizing linen creases to aid in prevention of decubitus ulcers or that the immediate proper response to a gushing arterial bleed is direct pressure then he's got a valid complaint.

Somehow, I just don't think that's true, though. I rather imagine the Dr. Khadra walks around with filtered glasses and sees what reinforces his preconceived notions of nurses.

[sharona97, BSN, RN]

I think on many points he's correct, but I believe he is missing the big picture of what he signed on to do and take the bad with the good, and stop the blame game on some of his nursing issues.

[MarySunshine]

If I wanted to, I could write a similar piece, where I was a martyr going about the hospital saving lives despite the shocking incompetance and hatefulness of the physicians I was surrounded by.

But yet, I wouldn't. I think it would be disingenuous. I think most health care workers (doctors and nurses) are competant and caring. He was just using the few bad ones to write a story about what an awesome doctor he is.

[BBFRN, BSN, PhD]

He also states, "All they need to know, and what university does not teach them, is that patients are 'nursed', not 'doctored' back to good health."

I find this to be true. I just think he doesn't realize it's not the universities' fault- it lies with hospital administration, nursing administration included.

[scooterRN52]

He also states, "All they need to know, and what university does not teach them, is that patients are 'nursed', not 'doctored' back to good health."

I find this to be true. I just think he doesn't realize it's not the universities' fault- it lies with hospital administration, nursing administration included.

I agree with you, nursing and hospital administration do not see things the way they really are, and as a result too many important things slip through the cracks.

New nurses are not taught in hopitals today and I think they need college and hospital to make a well-rounded nurse. In the end it is the nurse that always watches for complications and lets the Doc know that something needs to be done.

We unfortunately. don't get the credit we earn.

scooterRN52:o

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

The nurse looking after the patient is on a break, the notes are in the treatment bay, the patient is not in the ward and they do not know where she is.

That statement alone tell me that the man should shadow a few more nurses and further educate himself.

And that article seemed VERY martyr-ish. I wonder if the man ever catches his Superman cape in the elevator doors?

[CyndieRN2007]

And that article seemed VERY martyr-ish.

I agree the article seemed martyr "ish". Im sure if he looked hard enough, he would find GREAT university trained nurses that are just as competent as hospital trained nurses.

[UKPedsRN]

Am I the only one who read this article and took it for how he meant it? He is making his observations and mostly it is said in a light hearted manner. He is pointing out differences from when he was a resident and how things are currently. The time it takes to get from resident to consultant is not short. I can't speak for Australian nurses, being a Brit myself, but I think the older nurses can relate to some of the things he mentions. Let's get off our high horses and not assume that the man has written a whole book as a gripe about nurses in general. I found it somewhat amusing, but then we Brits and Aussie's have a strange sense of humor.

[danh3190]

"It is far more important in these days of medical litigation to ensure that your back is protected before providing quality care."

I was surprised to see this in an article from Australia. I thought the US was the only country with a medical litigation problem. Are they having problems in other countries too?

[heathIam, RN]

You need to keep in mind while reading his blog that nursing education and work is different in australia than it is in north america.

I personally can agree with pretty much everything he says after having watched the deterioration of nursing with the push to require everyone to have a degree.....the worst thing ever conceived of for nursing, patients and hospitals.

Sorry, but university educated nurses are not trained to take care of patients in the same way that hospital trained nurses were. It's a fact of life. University nurses are encouraged and pushed to go on, get a masters, do research, leadership, administration, teach...etc, etc. But how often are they encouraged to remain at the bedside? To provide excellent basic care? To wash a patient and do an assessment? To, god forbid...give a back rub???

Yeah, nurses are busy, yeah, there are even some good university trained nurses, however, they are NOT good nurses when they walk out the doors of the university and get their first job. To be a good nurse they need to put on some miles and get the clinical experience they are missing in nursing school. A hospital trained nurse would graduate with the skills and the abilities to deal with patients, physicians and the issues with nursing a patient. Tell me all you university trained nurses, how many of you did a rotation where you were the charge nurse of a unit in your senior year? No, not you were buddied with a charge nurse, but you were actually THE charge nurse?

It's a very different program now and we have lost a lot in getting rid of hospital training programs. Some of us can remember, some of us will never know what is missing.