A question for career changers.

gettingbsn2msn, MSN, RN · Apr 9, 2011

Not really. I was in the business world for a major corporation for 14 years prior to my BSN. I had the ability to decipher conflict. My only problem that I have not been able to combat is the physician with "the god complex". We have quite a bit of this at my facility. They are not mean, but rather believe they are invincible. I do not believe that they are the majority. It does not bother me but rather I see how it concerns the patients.

tropicalfish · Apr 9, 2011

Hi,

One of my nurse friends and I were discussing this topic. We likewise have opinions about the differences in cultures between healthcare and business. Both of us have been nurse for over 35 years. My friend has two adult children working in the business world---a young man and a young women. They are both professionally educated. They have both stated, independently of one another, that the racism, sexism, and bullying that is openly tolerated in hospitals is Not tolerated in the business world. If one of these problems come up it is severely dealt with---it is Not tolerated and it does not even come into the environment as much as it does in healthcare.

netglow, ASN, RN · Apr 9, 2011

I think the difference is major. Most of the stuff I see in nursing is developmentally around the 13-14 yr old stage and very dangerous. It has been quite difficult to me to feel that nurses who behave this way, routinely putting patient's lives at risk (and there are a lot) should have jobs. What is different in my 20+ years on the corporate side of life, is that you challenge another with your intellectual, and business prowess. You are held to a higher standard, and would be laughed out of your job with the first childish comment/accusation. There are no "incident reports". You have to be tougher mentally, and be a "grown up" to survive.

belgarion · Apr 9, 2011

I saw the "god complex" in business as well. It mostly came from the safety and accounting departments but anyone who held "life and death" power over your project or department was subject to coming down with that syndrome.

As far as nursing goes, the biggest difference I see is in working in a female dominated profession vs. a male dominated one. I had never before in my life found everything I say and do subjected to so much analysis and questioning as I have since entering this field. Example, when informed one night we were getting an admission from the ER I said "Wonderful!" I spent the next 30 minutes being questioned as to what that was supposed to mean.

dudette10, MSN, RN · Apr 9, 2011

They have both stated, independently of one another, that the racism, sexism, and bullying that is openly tolerated in hospitals is Not tolerated in the business world.

When I wrote the OP, I wasn't even thinking about that, but I agree with you and your friend. I can't read others' minds, so when I was in the corporate world, I don't know if people thought that way, but I NEVER heard anything even remotely racist or classist. As a student, I've heard it a lot in clinicals.

belgarion · Apr 9, 2011

I agree about the bullying and childish behavior. If anyone out in the business world were to act like some of the people I read about here they would leave a double set of skid marks on the side walk where their butt cheeks landed on their way out the door. And it's really hard to take a coworker seriously when everything they say comes out as a plaintive whine.

dudette10, MSN, RN · Apr 9, 2011

And it's really hard to take a coworker seriously when everything they say comes out as a plaintive whine.

I've heard the whining though. The person who whined incessantly was called a "cancer in the department" by other managers. She wasn't let go or reprimanded because she was bangin' the boss, and she got her way every time.

She was, however, considered an anomaly of the business world, I have to admit.

shoegalRN, RN · Apr 9, 2011

Prior to becoming a nurse, I worked in corporate america for 14 years.

And some days, I MISS it. Never had I've experienced so much unprofessional behavior in corporate america as I have in nursing. I will tell you, if some of the behaviors that I've seen in nursing were done in a corporate setting, NOBODY would have a job!

I am used to being direct, up front, and to the point, along with being cordial. That's professionalism to me. I am used to dealing with conflict behind closed doors and directly with the person I have an issue with. I am NOT used to all this passive aggressive behavior I see in nursing.

And another thing, you were EXPECTED to behave in a professional manner, or you had a meeting with management to discuss your options of employement. I've never had to meet with a manager to discuss "feelings and emotions".

There is a problem when we are having meetings on "hortizontal violence" and when "gossip" is the norm.

dudette10, MSN, RN · Apr 9, 2011

And another thing, you were EXPECTED to behave in a professional manner, or you had a meeting with management to discuss your options of employement. I've never had to meet with a manager to discuss "feelings and emotions".

Oh, so true. My meetings were how I did on a project (stellar or screw up) or arguing with a manager on why I deserved a raise without personal attacks. The only time I raised my voice was during a promotion negotiation meeting, but it was behind closed doors. I got the promotion, btw.

pat8585 · Apr 9, 2011

I have worked some non management roles in the business world. I saw A LOT of favoriteism with promotions and most of all schedules and lots of days off for the favored ones.

Healthcare has its ups and downs I guess. But have definitely seen some lazy nurses who don't seem to get called on the carpet. Worse environment I ever experienced was being a CNA in a nursing home. My butt was constantly being chewed and there was absolutely NO friendliness or professionalism among the other coworkers.

tropicalfish · Apr 9, 2011

Quoted from Post #3. Most of the stuff I see in nursing is developmentally around the 13-14 yr old stage and very dangerous.

I agree absolutely!!

The level of functioning of nursing unit can vary widely, however, I likewise see, that nursing units function at "juvenile" levels---cliques, bullying, racisim, etc---much less the juvenile behavior of others, including certain MDs and VP levels and above.

I don't have a full idea on the cause/s of all of this, however, a short list includes:

--who has the power in the system and who doesn't---which makes people to feel inferior---with resulting behaviors increasing on "both" sides of the power

--all of this has gotten worse as finances have gotten worse and management (whether in healthcare or business likely this applies---but more so in healthcare) and management thinks they can "slide by" with further abuses---very easily

--nursing school (and I have been nursing faculty in the past) focuses solely on the patients, with only a tiny fraction being given (in some programs only) on the nurse's personal development; AND

similarly, woefully inadequate information (if any) is provided and discussed about healthcare economics, financing in healthcare, payer sources, how to work with professionals in other disciplines, how to communicate with those who have the power, OR HOW to get nursing power.

To me, this is just a set up for failure.

Times have changed, but women's place in society--meaning hospital "society" has not appreciably changed. Why Not??

We all need to think about this and decide what we can do about it---both in individual practice and a group.

One of the Major failings I see--over the span of years--is that nurses keep waiting (including academia and nursing professional organizations--especially the ANA) for somebody else to come to save them.

That's not going to happen.

There are "Haves" and "Have Nots". the "Haves" (of any kind or circumstance) are not interested in helping out the "have nots" (yes, we can think of some exceptions---but I'm talking about the overall way things work in healthcare)----they are too comfortable with what they have.