A majority of Americans would tolerate higher taxes to help pay for universal health

[HM2VikingRN]

From Bloomberg:

Universal Health Care

Six in 10 people surveyed say they would be willing to repeal tax cuts to help pay for a health-care program that insures all Americans.

...

Most of the highest income group polled, those in households earning more than $100,000, support it. While more than eight in 10 Democrats say they like the plan, most Republicans oppose it.

Most of the highest income group polled, those in households earning more than $100,000, support it. While more than eight in 10 Democrats say they like the plan, most Republicans oppose it.

...

An agenda focused on health care and education spending would be better for the economy than returning money to taxpayers through tax cuts, she said: ``In the end it would cut costs.''

By 52 percent to 36 percent, Americans favored health and education spending as a better economic stimulus than tax cuts

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601170&refer=home&sid=a2TWmuh3vHHI accessed today.

[Simplepleasures]

Have you ever spoke to anyone that lived in a country with "socialized medicine" or "socialized health insurance"? The people that use it and the healthcare providers themselves will tell you if you have an emergent problem you can be seen, but if your problem is chronic the wait times are extremely long to have anything done. I know several people from Eurpoe and Canada and they are not very impressed with the healthcare system they have. This is not the solution.

YES, I do as a matter of fact, I have several cousins in Germany and several more cousins in Canada, they have told me that they would NEVER consider trading their style of healthcare for ours. They are glad they may never lose their homes and life savings to medical debt. Get REAL.

If your illness in chronic here in the good ol USA you can be expected to be dumped from your insurance , or try paying the HUGE COBRA payment. What you worked for so very hard for so many years will vanish to pay medical bills.The wait to be approved for SSDI is up to 3 years in some states,not every average middle class worker can survive this type of catastrophe.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

there are problems with the us healthcare system, but there are also problems with the canadians and europeans also. i am not willing, nor are most of the people i know willing,to take on a replica of the healthcare in other countries. if you are satisfied with it then that is great. one survey can not convince me that most americans would be willing to pay higher taxes to foot the cost of everyones healthcare. i could do a survey and come up with an entirely different result. surveys are useless.

the point is that we are paying for national health care and not getting it. 25% administration and profit would buy one heck of a lot of health care. see:

americans already pay for national health insurance — they just don’t get it. in this 2002 health affairs paper, david himmelstein and steffie woolhandler point out that the standard accounting miscategorizes two major public health expenditures as private: the tax credit for private health insurance and the cost of the federal employees health benefit program.

when these costs are accounted for, it becomes evident that americans already pay the world’s highest health care taxes. in fact, the amount of public health spending in the u.s. is greater than the combined public and private spending of nations which provide universal comprehensive health insurance. a single-payer system could provide such coverage to all americans with no need for additional health dollars.

read “paying for national health insurance — and not getting it” (pdf)

source: http://pnhp.org/single_payer_resources/60_percent_of_health_spending_is_already_publicly_financed_enough_to_cover_everyone.php

compare the health statistics between states with essential universal coverage to those without universal coverage. the states with universal coverage are healthier overall. see https://allnurses.com/forums/f195/vermont-healthiest-state-2007-a-260007.html (these relationships continue with hs graduation rates and lower poverty rates.) this is not a republican or a democratic issue it is an american issue.

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/business/04view.html?_r=2&ei=5088&en=3d64fb9624df7a4e&ex=1351918800&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1194499288-f8+vq86uC5k7qAsEHG51Qw

NY TIMES

Economic View

Beyond Those Health Care Numbers

By N. GREGORY MANKIW

Published: November 4, 2007

"STATEMENT 1 The United States has lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than Canada, which has national health insurance.

Maybe these differences have lessons for traffic laws and gun control, but they teach us nothing about our system of health care.

Americans are also more likely to be obese, leading to heart disease and other medical problems. The causes of American obesity are not fully understood, but they involve lifestyle choices we make every day, as well as our system of food delivery.

The health system in the United States gives low birth-weight babies slightly better survival chances than does Canada's, but the more pronounced difference is the frequency of these cases. Whatever its merits, a Canadian-style system of national health insurance is unlikely to change the sexual mores of American youth."

"STATEMENT 2 Some 47 million Americans do not have health insurance.

To start with, the 47 million includes about 10 million residents who are not American citizens.

The number also fails to take full account of Medicaid, the government's health program for the poor. For instance, it counts millions of the poor who are eligible for Medicaid but have not yet applied. These individuals, who are healthier, on average, than those who are enrolled, could always apply if they ever needed significant medical care. They are uninsured in name only.

The Census Bureau reports that 18 million of the uninsured have annual household income of more than $50,000.

About a quarter of the uninsured have been offered employer-provided insurance but declined coverage."

"STATEMENT 3 Health costs are eating up an ever increasing share of American incomes.

The reason that we spend more than our grandparents did is not waste, fraud and abuse, but advances in medical technology and growth in incomes. Science has consistently found new ways to extend and improve our lives. Wonderful as they are, they do not come cheap.

Fortunately, our incomes are growing, and it makes sense to spend this growing prosperity on better health."

~faith,

Timothy.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

From Paul Krugman:

Beyond that, a large fraction of the population — about one in four nonelderly Americans, according to a Consumer Reports survey — is underinsured, with “coverage so meager they often postponed medical care because of costs.”

So, yes, lack of insurance is a very big problem, a problem that reaches deep into the middle class.

...

And lifestyle isn’t the explanation: the most definitive estimates, such as those of the McKinsey Global Institute, say that diseases that are associated with obesity and other lifestyle-related problems play, at most, a minor role in high U.S. health care costs.

...

The reality is that the best foreign health care systems, especially those of France and Germany, do as well or better than the U.S. system on every dimension, while costing far less money.

But the best way to counter scare talk about socialized medicine, aside from swatting down falsehoods — would journalists please stop saying that Rudy’s claims, which are just wrong, are “in dispute”? — may be to point out that every American 65 and older is covered by a government health insurance program called Medicare. And Americans like that program very much, thank you.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/09/opinion/09krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin accessed today.

As usual the evidence refutes the purported wonders of the free market for efficiency in providing affordable care. Single payer delivers better results at lower overall cost for everyone.

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

One- If they cant balance the budget, then let it be for something that helps people, rather than keep this war going and possibly extending it.

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

I'd rather pay slightly higher taxes for National Universal Health Care than what I'm paying right now for Aetna HMO.

That is nicely stated

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Your husband's great care is unsustainable. Even Viking, in his thread about social security, admits that unfunded entitlements such as Medicare is the must larger danger.

So tell me, how do we greatly expand a program that is quickly leading the gov't to bankruptcy?

I know the answer.

Ration care and cut healthcare salaries. Both only possible with a gov't run monopoly.

It's that simple.

~faith,

Timothy.

Two- the only thing leading the Gov't to bankruptcy is our idiot leader GWBushie.

His illegal and fraudulent war.

Wouldnt need to ration heath care. Just end the overseas war.

Medicaire isnt unfunded, we pay our taxes for it.

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Well, throughout this debate we are talking about single payor.

I think that one issue is that health insurance is basically linked to employment, which is a bad idea.

So, how can we "unlink" it?

1. National Health insurance

2. Give it all to the free market, and let everybody duke it out.

3. Maybe set up groups that aren't based on employers? What about groups underwritten per state?

Frankly, I'm not nuts about National Health Insurance, or the free market. If somehow groups could be underwritten that aren't linked to employment, that would spread out the risk. Unfortunately, I am not a policy wonk, so this is about as far as I go...

Interesting debate, however.

Oldiebutgoodie

This would work if the free market was honest

But Halliburton leads the free market, I think that says it all

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

How about a windfall profits tax?

This isnt even necessary

Just stop Bushie and his illegal war, and his and Cheneys friends at Halliburton

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

another nugget of wisdom:

a major factor in our sky-high health costs is that americans simply pay more per unit of health care than any other nation. we're getting gouged, and it has to stop. for that to happen, a new system must bring americans into the same pool, so the government can use its massive market share to bargain down prices and advocate for their interests -- just like every other nation does.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=cost_counts

yes we are getting gouged dearly

sildenafil when it first came out was for blood pressure control

but when they found out it was better "elsewhere" the price then skyrocketed

insurance compaies record record making profits

pharmacies with record making profits

ceos with exorbitant incomes.

we laugh at the gov't and its expenditures system and poke fun at them. the same is happening here.

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Honest debate requires sourced data.

How about dishonest debate

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Eight years ago the President walked right into a balanced budget. IMO I wouldn't want this administration in charge of the healthcare systems in America.

Not just a completely balanced budget, but a record and unheard of surplus. Bushie killed it all, along with his gang of Robber Baron Republican Cronies

Halliburtons smiles agree with this