A majority of Americans would tolerate higher taxes to help pay for universal health

[HM2VikingRN]

From Bloomberg:

Universal Health Care

Six in 10 people surveyed say they would be willing to repeal tax cuts to help pay for a health-care program that insures all Americans.

...

Most of the highest income group polled, those in households earning more than $100,000, support it. While more than eight in 10 Democrats say they like the plan, most Republicans oppose it.

Most of the highest income group polled, those in households earning more than $100,000, support it. While more than eight in 10 Democrats say they like the plan, most Republicans oppose it.

...

An agenda focused on health care and education spending would be better for the economy than returning money to taxpayers through tax cuts, she said: ``In the end it would cut costs.''

By 52 percent to 36 percent, Americans favored health and education spending as a better economic stimulus than tax cuts

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601170&refer=home&sid=a2TWmuh3vHHI accessed today.

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Onerous premiums like COBRA will eventually be the norm under a government run system. Are you willing to pay for sex change operations? Penile implants, and God knows what else.

Can I gat a bigger one

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

And yet, these very elected leaders are whom you want to entrust with MY healthcare. I think YOUR healthcare would be much better off left in the hands of someone with a vested interest to protect it: you.

Gov't financing scheme ARE the current problem with healthcare. More of the same will be just that: more of the same.

Brought to you by: elected leaders, whether they are doing their jobs, or just lying to us.

~faith,

Timothy.

So do you trust insurance companies, whose bottom line is profit driven.

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

So do you trust insurance companies, whose bottom line is profit driven.

I don't trust the insurance companies, BECAUSE they are in bed with gov't. As such, they are pseudo-gov't agencies. A gov't run monopoly would not be a change from the current problems with healthcare; it would entrench those problems. Instead of insurance compaines acting at the behest of gov't through bribes to your employer, they would just be directly contracted gov't agencies. What's the difference? Gov't restricted healthcare is more of the same mess we have now.

I DO trust profit. In order to be competitive in the market place where the individual is the consumer, businesses must provide the best balance of quality and cost. Profit is an incredibly strong motivator to do good, in the name of self-interest. Your gov't pseudo-agency insurance companies are exempt from competition because the gov't runs interference for them. THAT is why they make obscene profits. For the cost of a few lobbyists and a few campaign bucks, these companies need not compete for your business. YOU are not their customers: your employer and gov't, are. And this gov't, if given complete control of your health, will no doubt hold you out as their highest interest INSTEAD of the lobbyists and big business they cater to, now? I see no evidence for such good faith to be given to gov't.

Gov'ts only excel at tyranny. That's all they've ever excelled at providing.

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages."

"The natural effort of every individual to better his own condition is so powerful that it is alone, and without any assistance, not only capable of carrying on the society to wealth and prosperity, but of surmounting a hundred impertinent obstructions with which the folly of human laws too often encumbers its operations."

Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations.

~faith,

Timothy.

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

Pretty pricey for out of pocket.

If only we could get the gov't out of the business of financing schemes for healthcare, the price would come WAY down in order to cater to what the market can bear - AND - because the compaines that sell those pills would actually have to compete for the business of the individual buyer.

Shoot, they might be even cheaper than your co-pay that way.

~faith,

Timothy.

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

Wisdom as old as America, herself:

"It is the highest impertinence and presumption, therefore, in kings and ministers, to pretend to watch over the economy of private people, and to restrain their expense... They are themselves always, and without any exception, the greatest spendthrifts in the society. Let them look well after their own expense, and they may safely trust private people with theirs. If their own extravagance does not ruin the state, that of their subjects never will."

The Wealth of Nations, Book II, Chapter III Written 1776.

~faith,

Timothy.

[sharona97, BSN, RN]

Wisdom as old as America, herself:

"It is the highest impertinence and presumption, therefore, in kings and ministers, to pretend to watch over the economy of private people, and to restrain their expense... They are themselves always, and without any exception, the greatest spendthrifts in the society. Let them look well after their own expense, and they may safely trust private people with theirs. If their own extravagance does not ruin the state, that of their subjects never will."

The Wealth of Nations, Book II, Chapter III Written 1776.

~faith,

Timothy.

I wonder if this book is in President Bush' library, You know one he read?

[sharona97, BSN, RN]

Unfortunately, with government healthcare, we will see long waits and rationing, just like every other country that has nationalized the care. That's why the English leave the country to get care elsewhere (India is No. 1 for surgery), and Canadians come here for help. Some of the patients I work with, would not have made it, if they had to wait 6 months to see a specialist. Yet, they were able to see a doctor right away, and get the proper care they needed. Universal health care sounds great....another entitlement from the goverment. But, in the end, as a nurse, I cannot support such care to patients. I have looked and can't find such entitlement anywhere in the Constitution. And, no, don't quote the preamble's "promote the general welfare". That's why the founders had the 10th amendment included. To prevent the goverment from doing whatever it wanted under the clause.

If the 10th commandment is the prevention to keep the people safe from unsafe govertment practices, how come that didn't come into effect with the lies of the govertment that proposed a vote in the congress. The lies of purported missles and bombs of self destruction in Iraq, the corporative profits of Enron that destroyed many peoples future and life? President Bush and Vice-President Cheney are in "bed" with their own powers that be, and are pretty good at lying about that too.

Concerning Nancy Pelosi, what has she responded too in your phone call of complaints, please do share. It is no secret that George W. is not her favorite person, and she has house vetoed against this president to help further protect the American people and soldiers. IMO the remarks that keep coming up about Mrs. Pelosi are mute. She was duly elected for her seat after the war had begun. She needs a shovel to help push out the persons who before our eyes have literally damaged this country and forever scarred American families who have lost their loved ones die for a war that has become a mockery. With that said, who could expect George and his administration (that changes every 2 weeks) to begin to think about decent healthcare for the people he is to govern? He is preoccupied with corruption and has been and will be until his 8th year is up. Why should we trust our government after all the damage one administration has done? It's time to use "faith" in the real sense of the word and look ahead to a change of safety for the American's and quit looking behind us and judging our future off what damage has been done. Of course an issue such as healthcare is and will be debated till who knows when. If you want to defy the sources shown in this debate and at the same time defend only the downside of healthcare with back and forth refernces to the constitution at least use a quote that is just to your defense.

Of "you don't want people, gov't in your affairs", then leave the past where it belongs and learn to make this a better country and for goodness sakes learn to become compassionate for those less fortunate. In making your life so right and just, use some of that morality to help your neighbor. Life is short, but it's wide and to remain bitter instead of better will I promise you bite you in the end.

And finally is you are a nurse who can't support giving care to our sick patients then please turn in your license and take your IMO bias to where it will do you the most good.

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

If the 10th commandment is the prevention to keep the people safe from unsafe govertment practices, how come that didn't come into effect with the lies of the govertment that proposed a vote in the congress. The lies of purported missles and bombs of self destruction in Iraq, the corporative profits of Enron that destroyed many peoples future and life? President Bush and Vice-President Cheney are in "bed" with their own powers that be, and are pretty good at lying about that too.

Concerning Nancy Pelosi, what has she responded too in your phone call of complaints, please do share. It is no secret that George W. is not her favorite person, and she has house vetoed against this president to help further protect the American people and soldiers. IMO the remarks that keep coming up about Mrs. Pelosi are mute. She was duly elected for her seat after the war had begun. She needs a shovel to help push out the persons who before our eyes have literally damaged this country and forever scarred American families who have lost their loved ones die for a war that has become a mockery. With that said, who could expect George and his administration (that changes every 2 weeks) to begin to think about decent healthcare for the people he is to govern? He is preoccupied with corruption and has been and will be until his 8th year is up. Why should we trust our government after all the damage one administration has done? It's time to use "faith" in the real sense of the word and look ahead to a change of safety for the American's and quit looking behind us and judging our future off what damage has been done. Of course an issue such as healthcare is and will be debated till who knows when. If you want to defy the sources shown in this debate and at the same time defend only the downside of healthcare with back and forth refernces to the constitution at least use a quote that is just to your defense.

Of "you don't want people, gov't in your affairs", then leave the past where it belongs and learn to make this a better country and for goodness sakes learn to become compassionate for those less fortunate. In making your life so right and just, use some of that morality to help your neighbor. Life is short, but it's wide and to remain bitter instead of better will I promise you bite you in the end.

And finally is you are a nurse who can't support giving care to our sick patients then please turn in your license and take your IMO bias to where it will do you the most good.

Gov't restricted healthcare IS uncompassionate, which is why I'm against it.

You've just identified the biggest problem with turning over your life and liberty to the gov't - it only seems wise when 'your' people are in power. It seems incredibly unwise when that gov't you want to place so much faith in is run by people you fundamentally disagree with on policy.

A better alternative: a gov't disempowered from usurping your rights, no matter who is in charge.

In short, you have paraphrased the guru, Ronald Reagan in this rant of yours: The gov't IS THE PROBLEM. On THAT, we agree.

I just don't see how, with all your concerns about the party in power, you would even consider turning your healthcare over to the gov't, so that his party in power can control YOUR healthcare after they win the WH in '08, or '12, or '16, or, whenever. . .

To want President Bush - or someone like him - to control your healthcare? That takes real faith (I have no such faith in Hillary, sorry).

~faith,

Timothy.

[pickledpepperRN]

Government acts at the behest of corporations.

Not the other way around.

[Jolie, BSN]

The bill was passed by a Republican congress that accepted PHRMA language that forbade Medicare from bargaining for bulk discounts. The scandal is when we let business buy our congressmans votes......

I agree that this legislation is scandalous. But the bill did not pass on Republican votes alone. Representatives from all over the country and from both parties voted it into law. Why do you think that the next piece of healthcare legislation will be any different?

[nicurn001]

"Onerous premiums like COBRA will eventually be the norm under a government run system. Are you willing to pay for sex change operations? Penile implants, and God knows what else."(CRNA2007).

There are a number of procedures that one could question , but in Universal Healthcare systems , care is directed by medical need , limited by available funding . Whilst in the Private Insurance system , care is directed as above but also limited by the need to produce profits .So yes if ,and only if a treatment is in the medical interest of the individual patient , then it should be provided within the limits of the provider .

On the opinion that you can't trust those that are elected , if you believe in the political process , once a government is voted into power , although you may not like it , you should follow the laws it legally passes , whilst being able to freely express whatever opinion you have of them.If enough people agree with you ,they will be voted out of office in the next election ( but there's the rub , whilst many people say we should vote the bums out , all to many put loyalty in their own representative or partiasinship to continue to vote the same bums back into office!).When an educated electorate demands that those seeking office inform the electorate , the details of there policies .Then the electors evaluate ,who represents the majority ( you will never get all) of what they want , you will gain a government most likely to represent the will of the people . What is happening at present is people are vested in their own political dogma , complaining the other party is not doing what they want , but then not bothering to vote in elections .

[CRNA2007]

Golly Gee you mean the gubment never spends more than it has? I knew the 8 trillion dollar deficit was a figment of my over active imagination. You think insurance premiums are high now? You ain't seen nothing yet, wait till universal coverage. ER wait will be twice as long as they are now with more people utilizing the ER as primary care.

"Onerous premiums like COBRA will eventually be the norm under a government run system. Are you willing to pay for sex change operations? Penile implants, and God knows what else."(CRNA2007).

There are a number of procedures that one could question , but in Universal Healthcare systems , care is directed by medical need , limited by available funding . Whilst in the Private Insurance system , care is directed as above but also limited by the need to produce profits .So yes if ,and only if a treatment is in the medical interest of the individual patient , then it should be provided within the limits of the provider .

On the opinion that you can't trust those that are elected , if you believe in the political process , once a government is voted into power , although you may not like it , you should follow the laws it legally passes , whilst being able to freely express whatever opinion you have of them.If enough people agree with you ,they will be voted out of office in the next election ( but there's the rub , whilst many people say we should vote the bums out , all to many put loyalty in their own representative or partiasinship to continue to vote the same bums back into office!).When an educated electorate demands that those seeking office inform the electorate , the details of there policies .Then the electors evaluate ,who represents the majority ( you will never get all) of what they want , you will gain a government most likely to represent the will of the people . What is happening at present is people are vested in their own political dogma , complaining the other party is not doing what they want , but then not bothering to vote in elections .