A Deep Dive into NCLEX Next Generation 2023

[nitenurse]

On 7/31/2022 at 7:56 AM, londonflo said:

I missed this in my first read but many times there are suppositions regarding that what we were taught, helped us achieve our goals and therefore should be the standing order of things. Your quote reads like you were in a nursing students only course. This is not a 'general' A&P course. You were funneled into this course because of a nursing major, and while the professor delivered the course in a belittling way (by limiting what was taught because 'you are just becoming nurses') , may be someone else in the class wanted to really learn A&P or had their passion ignited to something else (or got sucked in by the catalog course description thinking they were getting the full A & P). (read those stories on AN)  Anyway the course delivered what it was designed to do: you are a nurse,

The professor was a genius who could see the future -- or was it created for you?

Yes, they were 'general' A&P classes; in A&P I, we had two ultrasound students, one MRI, one CT and three HIM students (out of 54 students total). In A&P II, two respiratory, one medical biller, one nuc med and two dental hygienists. Hence, the reason the instructor skipped the histology section I believe. So, if I interpret your statement correctly, we had several non-nurse students and they were just as miserable as the rest of us. Everyone had the same goal, get through the class. Passion ignition is something you see on Netflix movies, in reality no one maintains that energy level for 2+ years. And again, none of the skipped sections were on the NCLEX so the instructors were indeed geniuses by your definition. .. . .. 

[nitenurse]

On 7/31/2022 at 7:20 AM, londonflo said:

I think I will agree to disagree. When nursing becomes a post BSN discipline, such as medicine, physical, speech and occupational therapy, and then a Master's required position I agree with what you are saying. Otherwise you are taking us back to the age when an18 year old, attended a hospital sponsored school of nursing, limited to the education to what was needed by the floor nurse. No required general education requirements. My first teaching position was in a diploma school of nursing that was well respected but...well...a diploma school. (we became the second diploma school to transition with full credentials to a BSN). The old (early 1900s) classrooms had blackout curtains so the students would not see what time of day it was. (like skid bars/taverns that blacken the windows so the patrons don't know if it is morning or night). (When I taught there, the  current classrooms had been added on) Students in that type of program, went to the hospital to do morning 'duties' and had class ( specific to nursing, only specific to nursing, specific to what they would/should do as a nurse)  in the afternoon. They went back in the evening to do night duties. They learned everything about what nursing was (circa 1900) and did it well. 

-I think this is a bit extreme and I'm not sure how you believe it could go in this direction

Why are you quizzing them?

-I am not; I am not a preceptor; If I quizzed them, I would have said so

I did not intend this to be a reading or attending class. My son did both.

That isn't how it works here.

-If that's not how it works here, then why bother having a discussion topic in the first place?  Let's talk about V8 engines then if no one has any intention of staying on the topic presented😊

 

 

[londonflo]

11 hours ago, nitenurse said:

Passion ignition is something you see on Netflix movies, in reality no one maintains that energy level for 2+ years.

Generalizing on every one's interest in a subject, course or educational program to:

12 hours ago, nitenurse said:

Everyone had the same goal, get through the class.

is not my perception and motivation for education and knowledge. I guess I am an anomaly....still taking classes at 67 years old. I have enough credits for a bachelor's 2 times over, an MSN plus 45 more post MSN credits (science, psychology, history (English, US, local, fashion, art, architecture etc) sociology, web design, computer skills and more. And I meet many of 'my kind' in my classes. 

[londonflo]

12 hours ago, nitenurse said:

Let's talk about V8 engines then

And yes, another poster can talk about V8 engines too. It is not the design of message board posts to be limited to the scope of only what the OP says is their opinion or topic. The OP's topic was NCLEX. You added your thoughts on limiting A & P courses to what the NCLEX candidate needs to know, along with citing your opinion on educational and work experiences, the state of nursing education today, a lumbar puncture etc. . I expanded on the role of general education in a program of study leading to a professional practice field which includes but is not limited to the NCLEX licensing exam. I too talked about my educational experiences giving my opinion and a history of nursing education. 

Neither one of us can speak for everyone in their interests in education. 

[Rmooney]

As a nurse educator, I think there is benefit in these changes. We often see students who can memorize the “traditional”  NCLEX style question but lack critical thinking and prioritization skills. Having questions that are more case based allows better assessment of a students ability to critically think, prioritize, and general knowledge of the subject. Yes, it will mean that educators will need to update their material. In my opinion, educators should be spending time on this after every semester. We should be continuously evaluating the effectiveness of our material used and making sure it is up-to-date. The program that I teach in changed the exam formats for one of our units for a class I teach last year in preparation for the NextGen changes. Instead of the traditional multiple choice or select all that apply style questions, our new exam is a case study. There are still multiple choice and select all that apply questions, but there are also short answer questions that allow us to better assess if our students can truly critically think and prioritize as well as having a true understanding of the labs and diagnostics they should be familiar with for the disease process. I’m really interested to see what the result will be for pass rates once the NextGen changes take place!

[londonflo]

1 hour ago, Rmooney said:

. Instead of the traditional multiple choice or select all that apply style questions, our new exam is a case study. There are still multiple choice and select all that apply questions, but there are also short answer questions that allow us to better assess if our students can truly critically think and prioritize as well as having a true understanding of the labs and diagnostics they should be familiar with for the disease process.

I am so glad to read this. Having taught from the 1980s to the 2018s, I have been through many exam revolutions. In the late 80s, we did case studies. I thought they gave the student the best way to plan, 'deliver' and evaluate care. Then we had to go to the NCLEX test plan that each test question stood alone and could not build on a previous test question. 

[londonflo]

On 7/30/2022 at 9:44 PM, nitenurse said:

I work at a teaching hospital and I don't believe that a single student has been able answer basic A&P questions when asked.

No quizzing (per your testimony)  but a conclusion on your beliefs 

[nitenurse]

On 8/3/2022 at 8:07 AM, londonflo said:

No quizzing (per your testimony)  but a conclusion on your beliefs 

Not a conclusion on my beliefs and I'm not sure as to how you arrived at that outcome

[nitenurse]

On 8/3/2022 at 5:25 AM, londonflo said:

Generalizing on every one's interest in a subject, course or educational program to:

is not my perception and motivation for education and knowledge. I guess I am an anomaly....still taking classes at 67 years old. I have enough credits for a bachelor's 2 times over, an MSN plus 45 more post MSN credits (science, psychology, history (English, US, local, fashion, art, architecture etc) sociology, web design, computer skills and more. And I meet many of 'my kind' in my classes. 

I am not generalizing, I am speaking from my experience. That was why everyone put study groups together. Academically speaking, I have two bachelor degrees (one in HR and a BSN), two master degrees and working on a third (MBA, MSN, working on a MPH) along with a Ph.D in IT. Usually I am the oldest one in the class and that includes the instructor. I had a long career in other disciplines before moving to healthcare so I have a unique perspective with curriculums and standardized testing. At every school I have taught, I have always advocated that curriculums should include standardized testing -especially with IT certifications (I.e. incorporate A+ principles into intro the computer classes) and it always falls on deaf ears unfortunately. So, with this topic in this forum, my stance remains the same, incorporate NCLEX formatting into curriculums. .. . 

[londonflo]

13 hours ago, nitenurse said:

So, with this topic in this forum, my stance remains the same, incorporate NCLEX formatting into curriculums. .. . 

Who is disagreeing with this?

13 hours ago, nitenurse said:

I have a unique perspective with curriculums and standardized testing.

All of us instrumental in any educational program do need to value the development of a curriculum and the use of many forms of evaluation; to make sure the curriculum is delivering what it is designed for. The easiest, most generalizable way, providing the most data points to compare one candidate to another is standardized testing. In nursing we use NCLEX with a full examination of a group's results through Mountain Measurement analysis (expensive but entirely worth it for improvement of a curriculum). I am sure you are aware of it. The use of portfolios and other individual work by the student gives us qualitative data, that too is so important for curriculum development and evaluation.

 

Quote

I work at a teaching hospital and I don't believe that a single student has been able answer basic A&P questions when asked.

13 hours ago, nitenurse said:

Not a conclusion on my beliefs

When some one uses the word 'beliefs' well...I figure they are referencing their beliefs. 

[nitenurse]

On 8/5/2022 at 9:15 AM, londonflo said:

Who is disagreeing with this?

I do not know if anyone disagreed with that statement if I understand the context of your question.

All of us instrumental in any educational program do need to value the development of a curriculum and the use of many forms of evaluation; to make sure the curriculum is delivering what it is designed for. The easiest, most generalizable way, providing the most data points to compare one candidate to another is standardized testing. In nursing we use NCLEX with a full examination of a group's results through Mountain Measurement analysis (expensive but entirely worth it for improvement of a curriculum). I am sure you are aware of it. The use of portfolios and other individual work by the student gives us qualitative data, that too is so important for curriculum development and evaluation.

Perhaps. However,  I believe that standardized testing has outlived its usefulness and purpose if there ever was one.  All of the expensive measurement tools along with the equally complex statistical analysis tools has served to over complicate a simple process. 

 

When some one uses the word 'beliefs' well...I figure they are referencing their beliefs. 

well. .. since I did not use the word 'beliefs' in my initial post, so I am not sure as to what you may be referencing in this instance.

[londonflo]

On 8/4/2022 at 9:15 PM, nitenurse said:

Not a conclusion on my beliefs and I'm not sure as to how you arrived at that outcome

 

15 minutes ago, nitenurse said:

well. .. since I did not use the word 'beliefs' in my initial post, so I am not sure as to what you may be referencing in this instance.

I am referencing your quote of 8/4.. as shown above. I don't care if it was in your initial post and are you are trying to back track now. . The fact is you used it.