A Call to Action from the Nation's Nurses in the Wake of Newtown

PMFB-RN, RN · Dec 25, 2012

until the mid 20th century, there were still TORTUOUS mental asylums where they were essentially LOCKED UP and SEPERATED from normal society.

It was BARBARIAN.

Parts of their brains could have been CHOPPED OUT by lobotomies, making them UNABLE to properly function and essentially CHANGE THEIR PERSONALITIES.
There were wet sheet tests where they would be FORCED to be cold and wet. It was about shoving down pills so they COULDN'T THINK and would be SUBDUED to "fit the mold."
I've seen some post here that "before people were let out of these mental institutions society was better." This is DISTURBING. We cannot go back to this BARBARIANISM simply because of the NRA

*** You are right. It was barbaric and we can't go back to those mental asylums. However the NRA has nothing to do with why we can or can't go back to such horrid places.

(not an NRA member or supporter)

PMFB-RN, RN · Dec 25, 2012

I never said all guns should be banned. I said there should be better gun regulation, especially those with the capabilities to shoot entire crowds of people at once.

I would like you to talk about what kind of ban you would like to see. A ban similar to what we had from 1994 until 2004? A retroactive ban? If so how wuld you locate and confiscate these firearms? Can you explain what the "assault weapon" you often refer to is?

Nolee_of_Araya · Dec 25, 2012

I don't know if this will work or not, but...

Just 2 of my cents... in case someone else did not already post it.

InfirmiereJolie · Dec 25, 2012

I don't know if this will work or not, but...
Just 2 of my cents... in case someone else did not already post it.

THAT is a SNIPER RIFLE, aka used by assassins, aka military (e.g., by the Russian military)

"Having suffered from these low tech .22 caliber Chechen snipers for ten years, the Russians have come out with their own professional .22 LR sniper rifle, the SV-99. This is a little heavier (at 3.8 kg/8.3 pounds) than your usual .22 LR rifle but is built for professionals. It has a heavier barrel, a bipod, silencer, and scope. It's a meter (39 inches) long and can accept five, eight, or ten round magazines. There is a compartment in the butt stock for two five round magazines. With the SV-99, at a hundred meters, a skilled shooter can consistently put all rounds in a 12mm (half inch) circle. This is a specialist weapon, most likely used by commandos. But any trained sniper can quickly adapt to using it. And snipers like not being heard. But while the .22 LR is quiet (because it is slower) the military .22 (5.56mm) round is louder." Small, Silent And Deadly

It's also been used by the Israeli army.

" So the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) searched for a 0.22 caliber accurate rifle that will be used to take out the key protest leaders by shooting them in the legs. The Ruger 10/22, fitted with a X4 day optic, a full length suppressor and a Harris bipod was selected for this role and was due to be issued to all infantry oriented units, including both special and conventional forces." Israeli Ruger 10/22 Suppressed Sniper Rifle

(((We need to use critical thinking here, do we really want DANGEROUS MILITARY weapons on the streets and listen to this propaganda pretending it isn't so? I don't think so... we need gun reform and more restrictions immediately.)))

kcmylorn · Dec 25, 2012

InfirmiereJolie - don't you think that if you are a licensed nurse, you should atleast have more up- to- date information/references on the subject matter/mental health care- atleast something more recent than than 1965.

Perhaps you should study up on your healthcare instead of ammunition and guns.

And in your mind- the mental health system is fine, and in your mind there is no such thing as public health?? And in your mind- the mental health advocates are all members of the NRA???

I find it a bit odd that a health care?professional would know so much about guns.

PMFB-RN, RN · Dec 25, 2012

THAT is a SNIPER RIFLE, aka used by assassins, aka military (e.g., by the Russian military)

*** LOL! OK come on and be serious now. You can only cary this so far before you start to lose credabiliety. Calling the most popular small game game hunting and target shooting .22 rifle, not even equiped with a telescopic sight a "sniper" rifle is getting pretty out there. Either you have to come clean and admit you are pulling our leg, or ditch whatever abserd firearms information sourse you have and check into realiety.

workingharder · Dec 25, 2012

" So the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) searched for a 0.22 caliber accurate rifle that will be used to take out the key protest leaders by shooting them in the legs. The Ruger 10/22, fitted with a X4 day optic, a full length suppressor and a Harris bipod was selected for this role and was due to be issued to all infantry oriented units, including both special and conventional forces." Israeli Ruger 10/22 Suppressed Sniper Rifle

Ok, you got the "cart before the horse" on this one. The point in the paragraph was that the Israeli military adapted a civilian rifle to military use. The Ruger 10/22 has been in production a long time, almost 50 years with 50 million having been produced. Also, you will note that these guns are intended to be used on extremities, i.e. legs. While the 10/22 can kill, their adoption by Israel was for the intended purpose of disabling personnel.

(((We need to use critical thinking here, do we really want DANGEROUS MILITARY weapons on the streets and listen to this propaganda pretending it isn't so? I don't think so... we need gun reform andmore restrictions immediately.)))

"...DANGEROUS MILITARY weapons..." Is there another kind?

"...listen to this propaganda pretending it isn't so?"

Propaganda: ": the spreading of ideas, information, or "]rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person". merriam-webster.com

Whose propaganda do you speak of?

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Dec 25, 2012

Thread is closed for Christmas Day rest.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Dec 26, 2012

Thread is reopened for polite discussion per our Terms Of Service

We promote the idea of lively debate. This means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite. Additionally, please refrain from name-calling. This is divisive, rude, and derails the thread.
Our first priority is to the members that have come here because of the flame-free atmosphere we provide. There is a zero-tolerance policy here against personal attacks. We will not tolerate anyone insulting other's opinion nor name calling.

This thread was created to gauge nurses support of many pofessional nurses association's pledge to TAKE ACTION via legslative lobbbying to imprpvve mental health resources and reduce preventable deaths from gun violence, not to debate gun legislation itself--- please use our BreakRoom fpr that discussion.

The American College of Physicians has issued a similar call

ACP Pledges to Try and End Firearms-Linked Death, Injuries

workingharder · Dec 26, 2012

"This thread was created to gauge nurses support of many pofessional nurses association's pledge to TAKE ACTION via legslative lobbbying to imprpvve mental health resources and reduce preventable deaths from gun violence, not to debate gun legislation itself..."

Alright, but how do you remove the debate over gun legislation from a thread that initiated the debate?

"Ban assault weapons and enact other meaningful gun control reforms to protect society" ( bullet point from OP, bold added by me)

allnurses Guide · Dec 26, 2012

... NNU nurses have been speaking out the mental health crisis for a long time.

"My first reaction when I heard the news was that he sounded like someone with an untreated mental illness," said Adelena Marshall, RN who has worked in the mental health unit of the Chicago Veteran Affairs Hospital for the last 20 years and has become the voice of veterans and the expert on mental health matters at the VA.

Last May, Chicago VA RNs with the support NNU had to threaten to hold an informational picket with the Iraq Veterans against the War (IVAW) to decry the appalling staffing conditions on the mental health unit. A couple of weeks later, 20 positions were posted.

"Nurses are on the front line of this issue and need to be part of the policy conversation," said Michigan RN Jeanette Hokett who works in a 14-bed child and adolescent psychiatric inpatient unit. "They spend the most time at the bedside with the patients and families, and offer a perspective others, such as doctors, don't have."

Earlier this year, nurses concerns about access to mental health prompted NNU to convene a roundtable on mental health. "Often, the emergency room is where desperate people end up," said one participant, Diane Fagan, a Kaiser Permanente ER RN in Oakland, Ca. "In the eight years I have worked there, I have seen more and more untreated mental health patients coming into the emergency department and spending long hours waiting to see a psychiatrist because so many of our outpatient services have closed."

Michigan RN Jeanette Hokett works in a 14-bed child and adolescent psychiatric inpatient unit at the University of Michigan Health System. She hears frustration from patients and families on a daily basis.

"There's not enough for these families to get the support they need," said Hokett. "I have seen patients come in sicker and stay shorter times. There are no beds. We have waiting lists for people who are trying to get a patient into our facility. While they wait, health care staff works with families to come up with a safe plan for them at home. It may mean a parent has to remove sharp knives from the house and sit with the child 24 hours until a bed becomes available.

"The reality is there are not enough treatment options and they are not always available for families because of financial constraints. If there was better access to mental health care, we would be able to improve the outcome for these patients and improve their lives," she said.

Ultimately effectively challenging the mental health crisis is an integral part of solving our overall, ongoing healthcare emergency in the U.S. ...

Time to Act Now To Restore Our Ravaged Mental Healthcare System | National Nurses United

workingharder · Dec 27, 2012

... NNU nurses have been speaking out the mental health crisis for a long time.
"My first reaction when I heard the news was that he sounded like someone with an untreated mental illness," said Adelena Marshall, RN who has worked in the mental health unit of the Chicago Veteran Affairs Hospital for the last 20 years and has become the voice of veterans and the expert on mental health matters at the VA.
Last May, Chicago VA RNs with the support NNU had to threaten to hold an informational picket with the Iraq Veterans against the War (IVAW) to decry the appalling staffing conditions on the mental health unit. A couple of weeks later, 20 positions were posted.
"Nurses are on the front line of this issue and need to be part of the policy conversation," said Michigan RN Jeanette Hokett who works in a 14-bed child and adolescent psychiatric inpatient unit. "They spend the most time at the bedside with the patients and families, and offer a perspective others, such as doctors, don't have."
Earlier this year, nurses concerns about access to mental health prompted NNU to convene a roundtable on mental health. "Often, the emergency room is where desperate people end up," said one participant, Diane Fagan, a Kaiser Permanente ER RN in Oakland, Ca. "In the eight years I have worked there, I have seen more and more untreated mental health patients coming into the emergency department and spending long hours waiting to see a psychiatrist because so many of our outpatient services have closed."
Michigan RN Jeanette Hokett works in a 14-bed child and adolescent psychiatric inpatient unit at the University of Michigan Health System. She hears frustration from patients and families on a daily basis.
"There's not enough for these families to get the support they need," said Hokett. "I have seen patients come in sicker and stay shorter times. There are no beds. We have waiting lists for people who are trying to get a patient into our facility. While they wait, health care staff works with families to come up with a safe plan for them at home. It may mean a parent has to remove sharp knives from the house and sit with the child 24 hours until a bed becomes available.
"The reality is there are not enough treatment options and they are not always available for families because of financial constraints. If there was better access to mental health care, we would be able to improve the outcome for these patients and improve their lives," she said.
Ultimately effectively challenging the mental health crisis is an integral part of solving our overall, ongoing healthcare emergency in the U.S. ...
Time to Act Now To Restore Our Ravaged Mental Healthcare System | National Nurses United

Anyone know if or how the new healthcare law might address this?

A Call to Action from the Nation's Nurses in the Wake of Newtown

Nurses: Do You Support a Call to Action in the Wake of Newtown + other shootings