SICK of BSN Pedestal - pg.5 | allnurses

SICK of BSN Pedestal - page 5

Get off the Pedestal with the whole BSN vs ADN thing. A fact this is overlooked is that ADN does the same job as BSN and passes the NCLEX. Everyone then cried ADN is uneducated blah blah. WHY dont we... Read More

  1. Visit  Frank RN profile page
    6
    @DUDERNGUY

    It sounds to me like you're jealous. The fact that us BSN graduates are getting ahead over an ADN such as yourself and the fact that you are forced to have to go back to school and spend more money (you already spent money to go to an ADN program and now you have to start from scratch to get a BSN, wasting not only your money but time too). $100,000 in debt? Nope, no loans and no debt here thanks to scholarships and government aid.
    Last edit by traumaRUs on Jan 11, '13 : Reason: tos
    Mom To 4, Sweet charm, nursel56, and 3 others like this.
  2. Visit  kalevra profile page
    1
    Yeah makes no sense to have 2 maybe 3 different education requirements to take NCLEX. There ADN, BSN and the far and few between Diploma.

    It really does not make sense why the national RN body cant standardize to one set regarding education. I mean they require all RN to take NCLEX so how hard could it be to make up their minds regarding what education requirements should be. I mean their word is law, once they make a decision everyone else will fall in line.

    It would end the debate once and for all. Allowing us to move on to bigger and better things, like better patient to nurse ratio.
    msn10 likes this.
  3. Visit  DUDERNGUY profile page
    0
    frank my education wasnt a waste. You kidden me?? Nursing was the best thing to ever happen to my life. And no i m not trolling to all the others who have suggested that i was.
  4. Visit  sun3bs profile page
    3
    The people who think it just takes a "baking class" or "gym class" to get their BSN are more than welcome to sign up anytime! Stop whining! It is a waste of your time and energy.
    KelRN215, anotherone, and wooh like this.
  5. Visit  amygarside profile page
    0
    It is a highly contested matter.
  6. Visit  HDnurseNICKI profile page
    1
    This is the saddest debate I've read... its as bad as political debates on huff... I'm an MSICU nurse at a MAGNET hospital and I only have my lowly ADN or ASS(ociates) degree as it has been referred... And I gotta tell ya some of these BSN's coming out aren't the quickest nor more educated then the lowly ADN's like me. That being said, there are some nurses that have been here for DECADES and will work circles around any degree... And frankly if I were a patient here I'd take the experience over the education any day. It's one thing to be able to write a specific style of paper but its an entirely different thing to save a real life (not a textbook life). Not at all knocking any degree... Everyone should just be proud of the job they are fortunate enough to do everyday! Regardless of the letters after the RN, we all worked hard to get here. And further more, once most nurses here obtain their CCRN they could care less about the BSN that comes after the CCRN on their name badge!
    DUDERNGUY likes this.
  7. Visit  jadelpn profile page
    3
    I like being an LPN. JUST sayin........ LOL
    Heaven-Leigh, Hygiene Queen, and msn10 like this.
  8. Visit  DUDERNGUY profile page
    1
    Quote from HDnurseNICKI
    This is the saddest debate I've read... its as bad as political debates on huff... I'm an MSICU nurse at a MAGNET hospital and I only have my lowly ADN or ASS(ociates) degree as it has been referred... And I gotta tell ya some of these BSN's coming out aren't the quickest nor more educated then the lowly ADN's like me. That being said, there are some nurses that have been here for DECADES and will work circles around any degree... And frankly if I were a patient here I'd take the experience over the education any day. It's one thing to be able to write a specific style of paper but its an entirely different thing to save a real life (not a textbook life). Not at all knocking any degree... Everyone should just be proud of the job they are fortunate enough to do everyday! Regardless of the letters after the RN, we all worked hard to get here. And further more, once most nurses here obtain their CCRN they could care less about the BSN that comes after the CCRN on their name badge!
    AMEN!
    rngolfer53 likes this.
  9. Visit  samadams8 profile page
    2
    The discussion is a tired one. We have to move on, because the system is. I never hear teachers whining over their baseline educational requirements. And nowadays, right, wrong, or indifferent, the grad degree or doctoral is what will move you ahead in education, the social science professions, and even in law. Look how many are going for the JD option.

    I am not saying I don't have a problem with the educational systems. I think financially they are seriously crippling many, and our country as a whole. Government needs to get out of running it, but it won't, the monster that it is becoming.

    It isn't, however, unreasonable for nursing to have a baseline education across the board. It's ridiculous how nursing roles in this country. There are too many tiers, and they couldn't really change things all at once, but now they have the opportunity.

    Jobs are going out of the hospital. It is reported on in business spheres regularly. The expenses of inhospital often outweigh the profit margins. This is not rocket science. It is just that people are refusing to see things for what they really are.
    hiddencatRN and wooh like this.
  10. Visit  nursel56 profile page
    5
    Quote from samadams8
    The discussion is a tired one. We have to move on, because the system is. I never hear teachers whining over their baseline educational requirements. And nowadays, right, wrong, or indifferent, the grad degree or doctoral is what will move you ahead in education, the social science professions, and even in law. Look how many are going for the JD option.

    I am not saying I don't have a problem with the educational systems. I think financially they are seriously crippling many, and our country as a whole. Government needs to get out of running it, but it won't, the monster that it is becoming.

    It isn't, however, unreasonable for nursing to have a baseline education across the board. It's ridiculous how nursing roles in this country. There are too many tiers, and they couldn't really change things all at once, but now they have the opportunity.

    Jobs are going out of the hospital. It is reported on in business spheres regularly. The expenses of inhospital often outweigh the profit margins. This is not rocket science. It is just that people are refusing to see things for what they really are.
    One could argue that the baseline requirement is graduating from an associate's or getting a diploma and passing the NCLEX. What confuses me about all this, that prior to the current economic conditions putting hospitals in a position to choose from a large number of candidates for one job, we've heard very little clamoring in the last 47 years from hospitals or other entities who hire RNs for more education when the number of employed RNs has been around 60% ADN in recent years.

    It's not for lack of trying the ANA and others haven't been able to get any new laws on the books, so who is creating the resistance? Who lobbied the North Dakota legislature to get their BSN-required law repealed? Why haven't those corporate bean-counters begun to press hard for new laws now that there is a respite in the shortage?

    It could be true that nursing doesn't value further education, but it's more likely that most (because I know there are exceptions out there) corporations that run large healthcare systems are those who don't value it. Canada (I heard from one Canadian nurse) gives both tuition assistance and stipend funds for nurses to go back to school. Teachers get an automatic raise when they earn another degree. It's one thing to print "BSN preferred" in your classified ad and another to put your money where your mouth is and throw in with the BSN-required campaign. I would argue that not only do they not support education, they want to turn us into little script-spouting Barbie (and Ken) dolls.
  11. Visit  samadams8 profile page
    0
    Quote from nursel56
    One could argue that the baseline requirement is graduating from an associate's or getting a diploma and passing the NCLEX. What confuses me about all this, that prior to the current economic conditions putting hospitals in a position to choose from a large number of candidates for one job, we've heard very little clamoring in the last 47 years from hospitals or other entities who hire RNs for more education when the number of employed RNs has been around 60% ADN in recent years.

    It's not for lack of trying the ANA and others haven't been able to get any new laws on the books, so who is creating the resistance? Who lobbied the North Dakota legislature to get their BSN-required law repealed? Why haven't those corporate bean-counters begun to press hard for new laws now that there is a respite in the shortage?

    It could be true that nursing doesn't value further education, but it's more likely that most (because I know there are exceptions out there) corporations that run large healthcare systems are those who don't value it. Canada (I heard from one Canadian nurse) gives both tuition assistance and stipend funds for nurses to go back to school. Teachers get an automatic raise when they earn another degree. It's one thing to print "BSN preferred" in your classified ad and another to put your money where your mouth is and throw in with the BSN-required campaign. I would argue that not only do they not support education, they want to turn us into little script-spouting Barbie (and Ken) dolls.



    Regardless, the reality is the reality.

    The business side of healthcare IMHO could care less about the nursing profession and its level of education. They are taking advantage of an opportunity--Keeping nursing association folks happy, while also tightening the requirements for jobs. Esme is quite right. They also have less to pay in terms of tuition if they hire folks that are already BSN. The graduate-degree applicants fall off after that, statistically speaking. So, they know most aren't going for graduate degrees. It's a numbers game.

    Even to work outside of the hospital, the requirement is moving to BSN--especially for anything with clinical mgt mobility. So while agree with you, the situation is what it is. It makes no sense to ****** about it.

    Also, there are still positions that could be filled in house. They have cut them. Because of the economy, they have shut them down--they have shut down a lot of the hiring.
  12. Visit  uRNmyway profile page
    1
    Ok, this is a very much discussed topic. I see both sides of the coin on this.

    I graduated from nursing school in Quebec. My degree is the US equivalent of the ADN, maybe even 'just' a diploma. However, I passed the same exam as someone who got a BSN. And I had to take 4 French classes, 3 English classes, 3 PE classes, and 3 'complimentary
    ' classes, on top of the core classes. Granted, I didn't have to pay for each class individually because of the system there, but still, I do think my 3 years could have been better spent on classes more relevant to the nursing field.
    Where I am from, BSN nurses graduate with NO clinical experience. Sure, they might have more overall knowledge, and be better placed for management and research positions, but can they install a Foley or draw blood? Nope. Bedside manner and experience goes a long way IMO.

    Now do I think that getting more education is a bad thing? Of course not! I am planning on entering an RN to Masters program as soon as I can afford it. The only reason I didn't continue my education earlier is because I was tired of being a broke student and wanted to gain some work experience.

    People from both sides just need to chill out. ADN nurses need to quit being hateful to those seeking to better themselves with more knowledge. Knowledge is power. And BSN nurses need to stop looking down on the ADN nurses and assuming they are idiots who just couldn't handle the BSN.

    This is like the LPN vs. RN debate...lol
    nursel56 likes this.
  13. Visit  uRNmyway profile page
    5
    Quote from Frank RN
    @DUDERNGUY

    It sounds to me like you're jealous. The fact that us BSN graduates are getting ahead over an ADN such as yourself and the fact that you are forced to have to go back to school and spend more money (you already spent money to go to an ADN program and now you have to start from scratch to get a BSN, wasting not only your money but time too). $100,000 in debt? Nope, no loans and no debt here thanks to scholarships and government aid.

    You only went to school for TWO years. What could you have possibly learned? Jokes on you for having to have struggled through a two year program only to find out you can't get a job. Don't worry, a BSN nurse will do the job better than you EVER will.

    The fact that you are so anger and bitter only reinforces that you are uneducated with your measly Associate's. By the way, what are the first 3 letters of Associate's Degree? Because that's what you are, DUDERNGUY.
    And this attitude my friends is why so many people with ADNs resent the BSN nurses. Being told that OUR degree is useless and that we didn't learn anything? Being told that a BSN nurse would do the job better than us? Being called an ass? Yes, I think DUDERNGUY was an ass with his post. However, I think this poster played that role pretty darn well too!


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