NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees - page 8

But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse. New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN... Read More

  1. by   Sheri257
    Quote from tntrn
    Along the way, I said to her, "Wow. Didn't know you could be an NP without first having your RN." "Oh," she replies,"I'm getting that along with a MSN and the NP" All in about 18-24 months! Now tell me how she could possibly have the clinical training necessary for any kind of entry-level hospital setting?
    My point exactly. But hey, according to several people on this thread, as long she's got those initials behind her name, she's more of a "professional."

    Afterall, titles do matter more than clinicals and experience. Hell, let's forget the clinicals and experience all together. You really don't need that to become a nurse, and you certainly don't need it for advanced nursing practice ... because it's the title that's most important!

    I have serious doubts about some of these accelerated degree programs. You have to wonder what's going on here.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on May 8, '04
  2. by   stevenpb
    The people trying to make a BSN mandatory are people who have at least a BSN. I have an ADN RN and have more of a knowledge base for actual patient care than most BSN nurses i have worked with. In fact, I would not let most BSN nurses I know take care of me! BSN's are fine if you want to do management, but if you want to do patient care, more hands on expierience is needed in training.
  3. by   studentrn621
    Quote from stevenpb
    The people trying to make a BSN mandatory are people who have at least a BSN. I have an ADN RN and have more of a knowledge base for actual patient care than most BSN nurses i have worked with. In fact, I would not let most BSN nurses I know take care of me! BSN's are fine if you want to do management, but if you want to do patient care, more hands on expierience is needed in training.
    I'm tired of hearing this argument of hands on training. I have looked into so many programs ADN/BSN programs and they all have hands on training. And there are good and bad nurses on both sides. So what's wrong with making a BSN mandatory?
  4. by   Energizer Bunny
    You might want to go back and read more of the thread before you just jump right in with that one!
  5. by   orrnlori
    Quote from studentrn621
    I'm tired of hearing this argument of hands on training. I have looked into so many programs ADN/BSN programs and they all have hands on training. And there are good and bad nurses on both sides. So what's wrong with making a BSN mandatory?
    Uh, yeah, perhaps you need to read this and other threads and you will at least have an inkling of the issues here.
  6. by   studentrn621
    I thought the issue was that NY was possibly making a BSN mandatory. My opinion is that maybe it should be mandatory. That way people can focus on their job instead of what degree someone has. I've read a few threads where it becomes an attack on who is the better skilled nurse. If there was only one road to take then there would be no division.
    Last edit by studentrn621 on May 3, '04
  7. by   teeituptom
    Degrees dont make a profession nore professional

    who you are, what you do, how you represent yourself and your chosen line of work is what makes your profession.


    example ------attorney vs shyster

    If youve been represented well by good attorneys then you think attorney is a good profession

    If youve been screwed by a shyster, then you can understand why there should be a hunting season for them
  8. by   NursesRmofun
    Quote from teeituptom
    Degrees dont make a profession nore professional

    who you are, what you do, how you represent yourself and your chosen line of work is what makes your profession.


    example ------attorney vs shyster

    If youve been represented well by good attorneys then you think attorney is a good profession

    If youve been screwed by a shyster, then you can understand why there should be a hunting season for them
    I respectfully disagree. There are good and bad in every profession, but that is not what makes them a profession. I have a AAS. But I am not going to get defensive because NY State *may* want a BSN as a starting point for nurses. I was told in my first semester of my RN program that the reason the NYNA wanted to up the level to BSN for RNs for many years now was to make our Profession more valid as a Profession -vs- a "training"- typed career. Education is never bad.
    I should add that I do think it would make the nursing shortage worse, so it probably shouldn't go through IMO.
  9. by   angel337
    Quote from NursesRmofun
    I respectfully disagree. There are good and bad in every profession, but that is not what makes them a profession. I have a AAS. But I am not going to get defensive because NY State *may* want a BSN as a starting point for nurses. I was told in my first semester of my RN program that the reason the NYNA wanted to up the level to BSN for RNs for many years now was to make our Profession more valid as a Profession -vs- a "training"- typed career. Education is never bad.
    I should add that I do think it would make the nursing shortage worse, so it probably shouldn't go through IMO.
    good point. education is never bad. i think people are just touchy about it because it can be life altering if someone is telling you that your income and job security relies on a degree. i now i would not want to go back to school if i have been a nurse for 20 years without any probelms. what if doctors were required to have two years of education? i know that sounds ridiculous but the point i think people are trying to make is that that little piece of paper does make a difference in how you are viewed. if it didn't mean anything then nurses wouldn't have licenses. we all worked hard in nursing school and i don't know about anyone else but i like being viewed as a professional vs a "trained" person that only does tasks. been there, done that.
  10. by   Energizer Bunny
    If I had to get a BSN right off the bat instead of going back later to get it after my ADN, I wouldn't even be going in to nursing. I would have to find another profession, probably business (yeck!) that I could get my degree in two years. I don't have the luxury of time right now.
  11. by   NursesRmofun
    Quote from angel337
    good point. education is never bad. i think people are just touchy about it because it can be life altering if someone is telling you that your income and job security relies on a degree. i now i would not want to go back to school if i have been a nurse for 20 years without any probelms. what if doctors were required to have two years of education? i know that sounds ridiculous but the point i think people are trying to make is that that little piece of paper does make a difference in how you are viewed. if it didn't mean anything then nurses wouldn't have licenses. we all worked hard in nursing school and i don't know about anyone else but i like being viewed as a professional vs a "trained" person that only does tasks. been there, done that.
    True! Hopefully we are all looked at as being professional already! But I believe NYS requiring a BSN would be working toward a goal of covering all the bases re: professionalism. Yes! Heck yeah! I worked hard in nursing school and wouldn't really want to go back for my BSN, at least not now.....but I would if I had to. I would rather be grandfathered in though. I think current RNs should be grandfathered in as I said earlier in this thread.
  12. by   mattsmom81
    It is amusing to me how facilities and TPTB love more education/letters after names...it makes them look better to have a highly educated group of employees after all.

    I've looked into my BSN several times and always get the same runaround. My diploma nursing courses and the university prereqs (obtained at a university NOT a community college) are ALWAYS a problem and they want me to essentially repeat 90% of my education!!! Now in my 28th year as a RN, critical care with my CCRN, WHY would I choose to go into debt again, waste my time repeating courses, and have my family suffer?? I chose not to as I don't wish to manage or move into MSN type roles. I do agree in BS as entry level (like Canada has done) but will draw the line if I am FORCED to return to school. What nonsense. I will retire and we will be short another experienced, practicing nurse. Wonder how many NYS nurses feel the same?

    And to someone who said diploma RN's were 'grandfathered' to get their associates degrees, you are misinformed. I remain a DIPLOMA RN and went to school 3 yrs.We graduated some of the best nurses in the state IMO. Our school closed down from pressure and lobbying from the academic snobs at the universities.

    I am working with more and more new new BSN's that simply have no clue how to function in real world facility nursing....and it amazes me how so many truly feel superior to me...a 28 some yr 'lowly' diploma nurse.....LOL. When the poop hits the fan they sure do yell loud for this lowly nurses' help.

    Ya can't treat people badly tho and expect camaraderie...this is why the dissention in the nursing ranks. The BSN academic snobs propogate this and have been since I turned out.
    Last edit by mattsmom81 on May 4, '04
  13. by   tntrn
    mattsmom81 wrote:

    "I do agree in BS as entry level (like Canada has done) but will draw the line if I am FORCED to return to school. What nonsense. I will retire and we will be short another experienced, practicing nurse. Wonder how many NYS nurses feel the same?"

    I'll be right there behind you. I have 27 years, an ADN, and no way would I go back to nursing school. I don't necessariy agree that BSN should be the entry level requirement in the future, unless they start preparing them way better than they currently are. After all, after we all retire and there's nobody to help them during those crises events, who're they gonna call? :chuckle

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