higher pay for BSN grads? - page 9

Quick poll here... Does your hospital pay BSN nurses more? If yes, how much? If no, what are your thoughts on this? On a side note: Does Magnet status tie into BSN nurses?... Read More

  1. by   gerry79
    Melissa states: In a way, there are much tougher hurdles in the BSN program because not only are you expected to learn to care for your patients, but your are put in the position of making management decisions, solving staffing issues, doing research, ie things that make you think on a more global level.


    I must respectfully disagree with your comment. At the hospital I am employed at on my floor (a large teaching hospital) ADN,s are often charge nurse and must make the above decisions that you infer only BSN's can make. I am not trying to make this an ADN vs BSN thing, by my ADN program was quite challenging also. Many people with prior Bachelor degrees did not make it. And what do you make of the fast trac BSN programs for those with prior Bachelors. The nursing portion of the programs in my area are 18 months. So would it be safe for me to assume that one can actually finish a nursing education in under 2 years?
    Last edit by gerry79 on Feb 20, '07
  2. by   jjjoy
    (copy of my posting from another similar thread)
    Personally, I don't think any new grad nurse should be making the same as an experienced nurse. Orientees should be on a lower pay scale until they are taking a full-load.

    I understand that no one likes to see someone get paid more for doing the same job. However, as it is RNs don't have any control over increasing their payscale. If BSNs were on a different pay scale (though straight out of school newbies should get the same pay, BSN or not), then one could boost one's salary by going back to school instead of having to find another job altogether to get better pay.

    But nursing costs are one of the many things hospitals are always trying to control. So of course, they don't want to create a system that means increasing salaries. It also doesn't make sense to them to encourage nurses to have BSNs because BSNs are less likely to put with poor staffing and the like because they have more well-paid opportunities outside of the hospital where they aren't daily struggling on the front line with chronic understaffing.
  3. by   missapoo
    Quote from gerry79
    Melissa states: In a way, there are much tougher hurdles in the BSN program because not only are you expected to learn to care for your patients, but your are put in the position of making management decisions, solving staffing issues, doing research, ie things that make you think on a more global level.


    I must respectfully disagree with your comment. At the hospital I am employed at on my floor (a large teaching hospital) ADN,s are often charge nurse and must make the above decisions that you infer only BSN's can make. I am not trying to make this an ADN vs BSN thing, by my ADN program was quite challenging also. Many people with prior Bachelor degrees did not make it. And what do you make of the fast trac BSN programs for those with prior Bachelors. The nursing portion of the programs in my area are 18 months. So would it be safe for me to assume that one can actually finish a nursing education in under 2 years?
    Ok, I didn't mean to imply that BSN's make decisions that ADNs can't...in my experience that is totally untrue. That is the problem with putting words on paper...they can be easily missunderstood. I know nursing school in general is tough whether it's ADN, BSN or LPN, nursing is a tough field...there is no denying that. I am no better than my ADN associates and many of them have been in nursing so much longer and have so much more experience and I totally respect them. I go to my colleages for advise without bias as to what degree they have obtained and I know there are many ADN's in charge positions and leading other nurses....I see nothing wrong with that. I for one owe so much to the nurses that had a hand in my training, both ADN, BSN and LPN. I agree that all new grads are wet behind the ears and need on the job experience without preconceived expectations and I will say, on the flip side, that there are those out there that expect a BSN grad to know more and do more upon entering the work force and this is so unfortunate....as many have said before, you have to earn the right to lead and be respected because you have worn those shoes of the staff/floor nurse, and even on to critical care areas, and you know what it takes to get the job done. You learn by experience how it takes a team to make everything flow naturally. I totally understand those that believe all entry level nurses should receive the same pay scale. I can see that side of the discussion. I do think it would be safe to say that most of the people saying that are probably not BSN RN's, for the simple reason that I stated before...if you go to school and do the extra work for a 4yr degree then it only seems right to be compensated for it. All of the old-timers at work fuss about the new grads coming in that are making close to what some of us make at our base pay rate. It just goes to show how desperate times call for desperate measures as hospitals try to recruit and retain nursing staff....that is a fine line and I for one don't want to be the one making that kind of call. You will never find a perfect solution that will make everyone happy so there needs to be some middle ground where we could call a truce wouldn't you agree?
  4. by   missapoo
    Gerry wrote: And what do you make of the fast trac BSN programs for those with prior Bachelors. The nursing portion of the programs in my area are 18 months. So would it be safe for me to assume that one can actually finish a nursing education in under 2 years?

    Not if you count the 2 yrs of prior training that is factored in. I think that as long as they have done the core curriculum that is required (I had to have 64 hrs of prerequisites that were not specifically related to nursing, prior to applying to my BSN program). The actual nursing part of the program once I was in, lasted 2 years. I didn't do the fast track since I went straight for the BSN and didn't even have an associates degree prior, but that doesn't mean I didn't still have to have all the core basics that the program requires. Again, the BSN degree only means that you have taken more classes and training to prepare you to do more in the area of leadership and management if you choose to pursue that. The basic nursing curriculum and training as far as clinicals and etc...is probably very comparable to ADN programs....there are simply more prerequisites in order to enter the program and from my experience, nursing schools can be very picky about who they let into the BSN program. They look at other things besides your overall GPA and need convincing that you have what it takes, not everyone that applies gets into the program. All in all, at the end of the day it's just a piece of paper that says I have gone to school for that long to obtain that degree....what I choose to do with it is what matters.
  5. by   BeHappy!
    I do agree there needs to be some middle ground...but, there are also RN's out there that have previous Bachelor's degrees in another field. Bachelor's = research is what I have been told by professors which divides ADN and BSN RN's. So that being said...research is done by other non-nursing bachelor's degree as well. If they are going to compensate the BSN's with higher pay than they should do the same for RN's with a Bachelor's in anotehr field.
  6. by   gerry79
    Yes, I agree I have a friend who is an Associates Degree educated Dental Hygeinist and she just laughs at the ADN/BSN debate. Hygeinist also have dual entries into the profession but coexist just fine. She thinks that their is a lot of insecurity within the nursing ranks hence the never ending ADN/BSN debate. At times I tend to agree.
  7. by   gerry79
    Quote from BeHappy!
    I do agree there needs to be some middle ground...but, there are also RN's out there that have previous Bachelor's degrees in another field. Bachelor's = research is what I have been told by professors which divides ADN and BSN RN's. So that being said...research is done by other non-nursing bachelor's degree as well. If they are going to compensate the BSN's with higher pay than they should do the same for RN's with a Bachelor's in anotehr field.
    I agree. There needs to be some middle ground....but my point is that there is but one exam that we all take regardless of our education, and once we pass the test we are all considered entry level nurses. And BeHappy is correct, what about those with advanced degrees already. Should they not be compensated also?
  8. by   BeHappy!
    [quote=jjjoy;2077191](copy of my posting from another similar thread)
    Personally, I don't think any new grad nurse should be making the same as an experienced nurse. Orientees should be on a lower pay scale until they are taking a full-load.

    I have to disagree with this statement. Orientees should be paid the same amount even if not taking a "full-load." New RN's are constantly overwhelmed by the unfamiliarity of hospital protocols, etc and actually are taking a "full-load" just by the sheer volume of information being thrown at them. The new grad RN's I have been around work just as hard as others and try to be the best nurse they can be by triple checking EVERYTHING and spending a lot of time with their patient's. All this makes it that much more difficult and should be compensated fairly.
  9. by   jjjoy
    So BSNs shouldn't be paid MORE because they don't offer MORE/BETTER nursing care, but orientees shouldn't be paid LESS although by nature of being inexperienced and on orientation provide LESS nursing care?

    Of course, a new nurse works EXTREMELY hard. That doesn't mean he/she should be earning as much money as a full-fledged nurse. heck, nursing school could be overwhelming as well and we were PAYING for it! Doctors doing their residency certainly work EXTREMELY hard and they're making peanuts because it's understood that they are still learning (and that they'll make more later).

    It's an interesting side issue, the pay for newbies, but it I suppose it is off-topic... so back to your regularly scheduled programming....

    :smilecoffeecup:
  10. by   Tweety
    At my job new grad RNs, both BSNs and ADNs, make a lower salary during their orientation, and then after they pass boards and are done with orientation which is typically three months, they get a raise.

    A lot of professions have this probationary period. Even when I worked for Pizza Hut we got less the first few months.

    However, experiences nurses on orientation are making what they will make for the entire year and don't get a raise after orientation.
  11. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I would like to see enhanced pay for both increased experience AND education.

    Shame on places that do not recognize the value of these.

    NO way should a new nurse out of school make what an experienced colleague does....nor should an ADN make what a BSN or higher does. I think it's a shame nursing does not tend to appreciate either. We don't even recognize our own value as a profession. (And I am an ADN w/less than 10 years saying this).
  12. by   RNsRWe
    Quote from Tweety
    At my job new grad RNs, both BSNs and ADNs, make a lower salary during their orientation, and then after they pass boards and are done with orientation which is typically three months, they get a raise.

    A lot of professions have this probationary period. Even when I worked for Pizza Hut we got less the first few months.

    However, experiences nurses on orientation are making what they will make for the entire year and don't get a raise after orientation.
    Interesting. All the hospitals in my area offer recent grads the same base pay, whether they are ADN or BSN, and whether they are GN or board-licensed RNs. A new nurse=new nurse. The pay is not lowered during orientation or increased once orientation is passed. Obviously experienced nurses will earn a different base pay, but they too have the same $ on orientation, no raises afterward.

    Perhaps it is a reflection of how hard it is to get the employees they seek, but nickel-and-diming during orientation periods wouldn't win any hospital any awards around here. It would just get them fewer applicants!
  13. by   Sheri257
    Quote from MuddaMia
    Those are all interesting comparisons...but I think what really is meant by the OP (Less of them = more money to obtain their services) is the difference WITHIN the profession..not a comparison of degree level across professions. What you would really want to look at is what the average PT salary was before the entry point was changed to MS--did it increase and by how much? When looking at these numbers I am sure you will see a substantial increase--and I think this would cross over to the nursing world if implemented
    I see your point but, I couldn't find much data on it. The only thing I could find was a Canadian study that says it didn't make much of a difference.

    Salaries have not increased for recent entry-level master’s occupational therapy graduates in Ontario relative to clinicians with bachelor’s degrees. The credential change from undergraduate to graduate degree entry-to-practice, for both speech-language pathology and physical therapy in Alberta, has not resulted in an increase in salary.

    In other jurisdictions in Canada and the United States the master’s degree-prepared therapists do not receive increased salaries. Other factors such as type of practice, funding, setting and union environments appear to influence salaries of health professionals.


    http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/rehab...et-Alberta.pdf

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 21, '07

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