BSN as entry into practice; why we decided against it.

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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While hopefully avoiding stoking the ADN - BSN debate unnecessarily, I thought I'd share my experience with my state's consideration of BSN as entry into practice, as well as the BSN-in-10 initiative.

About 3 years ago I sat on a council charged with evaluating and making recommendations on the educational requirements for Nursing. We worked closely with both employers and schools of Nursing to evaluate needs and capabilities and to coordinate the two.

We initially reviewed the evidence, most notably Linda Aiken's work on the relationship between educational level and quality of Nursing care. On the surface her work seems to clearly support the BSN model, however upon closer inspection we could not show that improved Nursing specific outcomes were due to higher proportions of BSN nurses, at least in terms of a BSN being causative rather than just correlative. While her studies did show a relationship between better outcomes and Hospitals with a higher proportion of BSN Nurses, she failed to adequately account for the fact that Hospitals with higher proportions of BSN nurses also have many factors that would be likely to contribute to better outcomes. For instance, predominately BSN hospitals (teaching hospitals) tend to have better staffing ratios, better support systems, better funding, and are more likely to be "early adopters" of practice improvements. Aiken's accounting for the effects of these differences were grossly inadequate. When her data was properly corrected for these differences, there was no clear difference between ADN and BSN prepared Nurses in areas examined.

We then looked at differences in curriculum between ADN and BSN programs and found surprisingly few differences. Pre-requisites varied among both ADN and BSN programs, with the only consistent difference being that BSN programs required a Nutrition class. We had assumed that the Statistics requirement was also a universal difference, but what we found was that this was only different in older ADN programs, newer ADN programs carried the same statistics requirement with some requiring a higher level of statistics than even the top BSN program in the state. In the program itself, the curriculum is closely regulated by both accreditation groups and the State Board, both of which hold the curriculum of both types of program to the same standards, minus the BSN program's additional leadership and community health classes.

Considering the minimal differences between ADN and BSN curriculum, we questioned whether there might be differences related to the 'caliber' of student admitted to each type of program, we were particularly surprised by what we found. Two of the ADN programs in the state required a previous bachelor's degree to even apply, more were considering this. The typical minimum GPA in core prerequisites for competitive entry ADN programs was 3.8, for BSN programs it was 3.6.

The biggest factor was what we would need to do to move to only BSN programs. Our current BSN programs already have a shortage of clinical spots, so expanding our current BSN programs was not an option. The only viable option was to take our ADN programs and simply start calling them BSN programs by adding community health and leadership classes and requiring the additional "general" credits needed to fulfill the credit requirements of a bachelors. To do this, community colleges would have to partner with Universities who would then grant BSN's for a (large) fee. This would essentially mean the only difference between an ADN and BSN would be 8 core credits, about 35 general credits, and about $18,000.

The other concern with limiting RN education opportunities to BSN programs by expanding BSN programs was the demographic makeup of Nursing students. More than half of those currently going into Nursing are "second career" students. These students typically are not in positions where attending a direct BSN program is feasible. In my state, BSN programs are only available in two urban areas. It's much easier for an 18 year old to drop everything and move to one of these two areas than it is for someone who has kids in school, owns a home, has a spouse with an immovable job, etc. As a result we were concerned about the effect such a drastic change in Nursing student demographics might have.

A survey of employers found no glaring preference for BSN prepared Nurses in my state, in fact we were surprised at the number of Hospitals that expressed a preference for ADN new grads as they found their bedside training requirements were less, this was likely due to the limitations in clinical experience in BSN programs. Only one hospital in the state expressed a preference for BSN graduates, although they did not require a BSN, this was the Hospital associated with the state's largest BSN program. They did express that their preference for BSN's was somewhat self-serving; when part of the job market is "BSN-only", it helps maintain demand for a degree that's fairly similar yet typically 400% more expensive than the ADN option. This would seem to shed some light on why "BSN-only" employers are primarily hospitals associated with Universities.

In the end we determined that we could not support the goal of BSN as entry to practice at this time. We did however endorse the concept of BSN-in-10 through ADN to BSN programs. Although we didn't go so far as to advocate BSN-in-10 as a requirement. This was partly due to reviewing North Dakota's failed BSN-in-10 attempt, as well as the demographics involved in the Nursing workforce. The number of experienced Nurses who leave the workforce is a real problem. This attrition often occurs between 5 and 10 years. Adding a requirement that will take additional time as well as cost, in many cases, up to half of their yearly salary would too often serve as the primary factor in a decision to leave Nursing. There are huge advantages to additional schooling after a period of time in the workforce, one could argue advantages that exceed that of direct BSN programs, however it was not felt that the loss of experienced Nurses outweighed those advantages. But when feasible, all ADN Nurses should be actively encouraged to pursue an ADN to BSN.

As a BSN prepared Nurse, I was expecting confirmation that my money was spell spent, and I'm not saying it necessarily wasn't, however many of the assumptions I held may have been overstated or just incorrect. For many, direct BSN programs are worth the expense, for other's it's not. What's most important is that students can make an informed decision.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Critical Care, Public Health.

To be a substitute teacher, they need a bachelor's degree. To teach as a licensed professional they are mandated to have a master' degree. This should be in all 50 states. In my opinion, there's no excuse for higher education in nursing, to improve critical thinking and evidence-based practice

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
*** Ya the problem with this statement is not only is it (deliberatly I am sure) insulting, but factualy inaccurate. I am an instructor in a hospital's Critical Care Nurse Residency Program. We hire both ADNs and BSN grads into the residency. We have been doing this for since 2005. Some graduate and make competent ICU nurses and some don't. We have been unable to predict who will and who will not be able to complete the high pressure program and be sucsesseful critical care nurses based on the nursing degree they come to us with. We have noticed that older grads with more life experience do better. The ADN grads tend to be older, as do the accelerated BSN grads. The traditional BSN grads have the highest drop out rate. Also BSN grads have the lowest number of completed contracts. For that reason BSN grads are no longer hired into the residency for the SICU, though they still are for PICU, NICU, MICU, ER & PACU.

*** Well you are certainly entiteled to your opinion.

d-e-l-i-b-e-r-a-t-e-l-y deliberately

f-a-c-t-u-a-l-l-y factually

s-u-c-c-e-s-s-f-u-l-l-y successfully

I do this not out of cattiness. Just to illustrate that a good education never hurt anyone..ANYONE.

Spelling is important; especially when you're the teacher.

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

Sigh......

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
d-e-l-i-b-e-r-a-t-e-l-y deliberately

f-a-c-t-u-a-l-l-y factually

s-u-c-c-e-s-s-f-u-l-l-y successfully

I do this not out of cattiness. Just to illustrate that a good education never hurt anyone..ANYONE.

Spelling is important; especially when you're the teacher.

*** Ya I can't spell. I have dyslexia, didn't learn to read until I was 11 (I remember my teacher telling my mom "he's just to dumb to learn to read") and no spell check on my phone. Also huge hands that make typing on anything other than a full sized keyboard difficult. I am also a graduate of a well respected state university BSN program.

I don't teach spelling, I teach hemodynamics, gtts, and a couple other subjects. Once again I can't spell, I know that, in addition my huge fingers make typos common. I deal with it.

Now any comments on the content of my message?

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
To be a substitute teacher, they need a bachelor's degree. To teach as a licensed professional they are mandated to have a master' degree. This should be in all 50 states. In my opinion, there's no excuse for higher education in nursing, to improve critical thinking and evidence-based practice

What is the evidence that ADN RNs have less critical thinking skills than nurses with BSN? How is that measured? Why and how would requiring BSNs improve EBP?

Specializes in Peds/Neo CCT,Flight, ER, Hem/Onc.
In my opinion, there's no excuse for higher education in nursing, to improve critical thinking and evidence-based practice

Oh yeah because the Advanced Birdwatching class my friend's kid is taking in her BSN program is really going to increase her critical thinking skills. I'm not kidding.

I think it's a shame after nurses have had to work so hard to be seen as a valuable member of the healthcare profession instead of "butt wipers" that nurses themselves would say something as ridiculous as, "I don't need a master's degree to wipe butts."

That's sad if you think you're a glorified butt wiper. Where do you work that they would even pay an RN to be a butt wiper? They must be hard up.

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Why do we not just require PhD's for all nurses? Then we could be addressed as "Doctor Nurse..." ;)

Seriously, it looks like some in Nursing are really trying to do some serious damage to the profession by requiring advanced degrees. Must be (at least where they are employed) there is a glut of nurses that will continue for the coming decades. When those calls for such requirements come from the "educators", a conclusion can be easily drawn.

What they "call for" is a shell game they can change with the winds anytime they see fit because 1) they have a lock on the media due to reporters being lazy and accepting their talking points as "truth" and 2) nobody holds them accountable for their inconsistencies or record of failure on 100% of their past predictions.

You will still hear the old talking points and the ossified thinking patterns in the rank and file of faculty (thank God it's not the faculty who post regularly here) who I guess figure their degree exempts them from thoughfully reading through a thread before depositing a rash and insulting series of comments.

Right now, for example, they have backed off current nursing shortage for the most part and are running around attempting to scare people about the coming epic catastrophe shortage that's supposed to arrive around 2020. It was scheduled to arrive in 2010 but then they discovered several hundred thousand young female nurses graduating between 2005 and 2009 they hadn't noticed before.

Not sure if pressuring faculty to earn their doctoral degrees in the midst of a drastic faculty shortage is sensible either.

Specializes in Critical Care.
d-e-l-i-b-e-r-a-t-e-l-y deliberately

f-a-c-t-u-a-l-l-y factually

s-u-c-c-e-s-s-f-u-l-l-y successfully

I do this not out of cattiness. Just to illustrate that a good education never hurt anyone..ANYONE.

Spelling is important; especially when you're the teacher.

I'm curious what you think the difference is? BSN program English dept prereq requirement is typically limited to just Eng 101, ASN programs also require Eng 101, what's the difference?

Specializes in Critical Care.

Subee, mainly what I'm trying to identify what it is specifically that makes for such a discrepancy in education? There are two consortiums in my state where ASN and BSN students sit side by side in the same classes, the only difference are the electives the BSN students take to change their ASN into a BSN (birdwatching, basketweaving and the like). Is this what makes the Nursing education of these two students sitting the same class so different?

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

Not sure if pressuring faculty to earn their doctoral degrees in the midst of a drastic faculty shortage is sensible either.

*** How can we have a faculty shortage? We have too many nurses and too many nursing school. Seems to me that we have at least twice as many faculty as we should have.

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
*** How can we have a faculty shortage? We have too many nurses and too many nursing school. Seems to me that we have at least twice as many faculty as we should have.

Because the nurse power groups don't believe we have too many nurses and nursing schools. They continue to speculate that there will be a gigantic exodus of nurses who've delayed retirement, a huge influx of people demanding medical care as a result of the ACA, and droves of aging baby boomers overloading the system.

Should any of these things fail to materialize, thousands more new grads will not be able to find jobs but the Tri-Council ("an alliance between the American Association of Colleges of Nursing, the American Nurses Association, the American Organization of Nurse Executives, and the National League for Nursing") still made this statement:

"the Tri-Council is very concerned that diminishing the pipeline of future nurses may put the health of many Americans at risk, particularly those from rural and underserved communities, and leave our healthcare delivery system unprepared to meet the demand for essential nursing services." (bolding added)

I guess it would then seem logical to them that we're facing a faculty shortage. as Geraldine "Polly" Bednash, executive director of the AACN stated in August of this year. Their view is that every person who can qualify for nursing school should be admitted to nursing school.

"more than 76,000 qualified applicants were turned away, in large part because nursing schools didn't have enough professors. says nurses comprise the oldest workforce in the nation, and many of them kept working during the recession. They are going to leave in droves andare already leaving in some places where the economy is getting better."

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