BSN as entry into practice; why we decided against it.

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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While hopefully avoiding stoking the ADN - BSN debate unnecessarily, I thought I'd share my experience with my state's consideration of BSN as entry into practice, as well as the BSN-in-10 initiative.

About 3 years ago I sat on a council charged with evaluating and making recommendations on the educational requirements for Nursing. We worked closely with both employers and schools of Nursing to evaluate needs and capabilities and to coordinate the two.

We initially reviewed the evidence, most notably Linda Aiken's work on the relationship between educational level and quality of Nursing care. On the surface her work seems to clearly support the BSN model, however upon closer inspection we could not show that improved Nursing specific outcomes were due to higher proportions of BSN nurses, at least in terms of a BSN being causative rather than just correlative. While her studies did show a relationship between better outcomes and Hospitals with a higher proportion of BSN Nurses, she failed to adequately account for the fact that Hospitals with higher proportions of BSN nurses also have many factors that would be likely to contribute to better outcomes. For instance, predominately BSN hospitals (teaching hospitals) tend to have better staffing ratios, better support systems, better funding, and are more likely to be "early adopters" of practice improvements. Aiken's accounting for the effects of these differences were grossly inadequate. When her data was properly corrected for these differences, there was no clear difference between ADN and BSN prepared Nurses in areas examined.

We then looked at differences in curriculum between ADN and BSN programs and found surprisingly few differences. Pre-requisites varied among both ADN and BSN programs, with the only consistent difference being that BSN programs required a Nutrition class. We had assumed that the Statistics requirement was also a universal difference, but what we found was that this was only different in older ADN programs, newer ADN programs carried the same statistics requirement with some requiring a higher level of statistics than even the top BSN program in the state. In the program itself, the curriculum is closely regulated by both accreditation groups and the State Board, both of which hold the curriculum of both types of program to the same standards, minus the BSN program's additional leadership and community health classes.

Considering the minimal differences between ADN and BSN curriculum, we questioned whether there might be differences related to the 'caliber' of student admitted to each type of program, we were particularly surprised by what we found. Two of the ADN programs in the state required a previous bachelor's degree to even apply, more were considering this. The typical minimum GPA in core prerequisites for competitive entry ADN programs was 3.8, for BSN programs it was 3.6.

The biggest factor was what we would need to do to move to only BSN programs. Our current BSN programs already have a shortage of clinical spots, so expanding our current BSN programs was not an option. The only viable option was to take our ADN programs and simply start calling them BSN programs by adding community health and leadership classes and requiring the additional "general" credits needed to fulfill the credit requirements of a bachelors. To do this, community colleges would have to partner with Universities who would then grant BSN's for a (large) fee. This would essentially mean the only difference between an ADN and BSN would be 8 core credits, about 35 general credits, and about $18,000.

The other concern with limiting RN education opportunities to BSN programs by expanding BSN programs was the demographic makeup of Nursing students. More than half of those currently going into Nursing are "second career" students. These students typically are not in positions where attending a direct BSN program is feasible. In my state, BSN programs are only available in two urban areas. It's much easier for an 18 year old to drop everything and move to one of these two areas than it is for someone who has kids in school, owns a home, has a spouse with an immovable job, etc. As a result we were concerned about the effect such a drastic change in Nursing student demographics might have.

A survey of employers found no glaring preference for BSN prepared Nurses in my state, in fact we were surprised at the number of Hospitals that expressed a preference for ADN new grads as they found their bedside training requirements were less, this was likely due to the limitations in clinical experience in BSN programs. Only one hospital in the state expressed a preference for BSN graduates, although they did not require a BSN, this was the Hospital associated with the state's largest BSN program. They did express that their preference for BSN's was somewhat self-serving; when part of the job market is "BSN-only", it helps maintain demand for a degree that's fairly similar yet typically 400% more expensive than the ADN option. This would seem to shed some light on why "BSN-only" employers are primarily hospitals associated with Universities.

In the end we determined that we could not support the goal of BSN as entry to practice at this time. We did however endorse the concept of BSN-in-10 through ADN to BSN programs. Although we didn't go so far as to advocate BSN-in-10 as a requirement. This was partly due to reviewing North Dakota's failed BSN-in-10 attempt, as well as the demographics involved in the Nursing workforce. The number of experienced Nurses who leave the workforce is a real problem. This attrition often occurs between 5 and 10 years. Adding a requirement that will take additional time as well as cost, in many cases, up to half of their yearly salary would too often serve as the primary factor in a decision to leave Nursing. There are huge advantages to additional schooling after a period of time in the workforce, one could argue advantages that exceed that of direct BSN programs, however it was not felt that the loss of experienced Nurses outweighed those advantages. But when feasible, all ADN Nurses should be actively encouraged to pursue an ADN to BSN.

As a BSN prepared Nurse, I was expecting confirmation that my money was spell spent, and I'm not saying it necessarily wasn't, however many of the assumptions I held may have been overstated or just incorrect. For many, direct BSN programs are worth the expense, for other's it's not. What's most important is that students can make an informed decision.

Specializes in Critical Care.
The average career of a nurse is 25 years????!!!!! Is that why us who have been a nurse for 32 years can't get a job? Munro, where did you hear this???Is this true???

I knew it- it's soup kitchens and homeless shelters for us What are we supposed to do when we aren't near 65 yet? those of us who had our RN's at age 23and it's 32 years late?

I think 25 years is actually a pretty high estimate for the average Nurse career span. These two sites put it at 5-7 years. The average age of a new grad is 31 years old. A sizable chunk of those new grads won't make it more than 2 or 3 years. If we use a 6 year average in my previous example then getting a BSN can be a 12,500 pay cut per year compared to an ADN.

Specializes in ICU, transport, CRNA.

Or more than double what CRNA school cost. Holy crap is right........

Specializes in ICU, transport, CRNA.
*** Here in Wisconsin the public ADN programs are 1 plus 1. That means that after a student finishes the first year of the ADN program they are eligible to take the NCLEX-LPN. Most will do so and then work full time over the summer as LPNs and then continue part time LPN during the last two semesters of the nursing program. So it is not unusual at all for a brand new ADN RN to have nearly a year of LPN experience.

I went to nursing school in Wisconsin and that is exactly what I did.

We also have 3 year BSN programs, Chaplain college offers one, it's 1 year of pre-reqs (A&P, micro, Psych, math, etc) and 2 years of the program. Of course this is completely different from an ADN program, which is 1 year of pre-reqs and 2 years of program.

Saying a BSN is better than an ADN doesn't make as much sense when you put it another way; 1 year of pre-reqs and 2 years of program is better than 1 year of pre-reqs and 2 years of program.

Of course Chamberlain's program isn't exactly the same as ADN programs; it costs $85,000.

85k for a nursing degree? That is just, wow. I think a majority of the students who decide to go there is because they couldn't make it into a regular college that costs significantly less because of the long waiting lists.... Then again I hear there is no ”waiting list” because most schools select students with the highest gpa. Anyone with a 2.5, even a 3.0 ”waiting” for entrance is just wasting their time.

I did not say that "only hospitals affiliated with BSN granting Universities prefer BSNs", I stated that if you intend on working at an academic hospital, then a BSN is definitely worthwhile. This varies from area to area, it's not really accurate to take a characteristics specific to a local area and generalize it to the entire country. What RN's in your area and what RN's in my area experience might be very different.

Conspiracy theories are ideas that are unproven and often seem far fetched. The idea that Universities see some benefit in increasing demand for their own product came from the Dean of a local BSN program, not some paranoid delusion. While we're on the subject of conspiracy theories though, we recently had a large consulting group come through. They identified that we could save money by increasing RN FTE's, and suggested one way of doing this was to hire more BSN's, as they often need to make more money due to higher loan amounts.

In major urban centers, where most if not all hospitals have some sort of affiliation with a University, you will benefit from a BSN, however not all Nurses intend on working in major Urban centers.

It's important to understand the motivations of many (but not all) employers who require or prefer BSN's as this has been seen by many as a sign that all employers see significant differences in ADN and BSN graduates, and therefore it only makes sense to do away with ADN programs. Understanding the reasoning behind this demand helps us make more appropriate decisions in how we manage our profession.

So if it's up to you, how would you change Nursing education?

Was the consulting firm Stroudwater, by any chance?

Specializes in Critical Care.
Was the consulting firm Stroudwater, by any chance?

Huron consulting group. It's what's left of Arthur Andersen (the Arthur Andersen execs that avoided jailtime as a result of Enron started Huron consulting). Seems like a great group of people to take business advice from right?

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
We also have 3 year BSN programs, Chaplain college offers one, it's 1 year of pre-reqs (A&P, micro, Psych, math, etc) and 2 years of the program. Of course this is completely different from an ADN program, which is 1 year of pre-reqs and 2 years of program.

Saying a BSN is better than an ADN doesn't make as much sense when you put it another way; 1 year of pre-reqs and 2 years of program is better than 1 year of pre-reqs and 2 years of program.

Of course Chamberlain's program isn't exactly the same as ADN programs; it costs $85,000.

I googled Champlain College nursing and came up with a Champlain College in Canada with a pre-nursing program but no nursing degree. There is a Champlain College in Burlington, Vt. but no nursing program. So ?where is this 3-year BSN program? Unless the students go year around or transfer a year's credits to a 4 year program, I don't believe it until I see it.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I googled Champlain College nursing and came up with a Champlain College in Canada with a pre-nursing program but no nursing degree. There is a Champlain College in Burlington, Vt. but no nursing program. So ?where is this 3-year BSN program? Unless the students go year around or transfer a year's credits to a 4 year program, I don't believe it until I see it.

3-Year Bachelor of Science in Nursing

Chamberlain College of Nursing's Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN) degree program enables students to earn their BSN degree in as few as three years of year-round study instead of the typical four years with summers off, allowing students to enter the workforce sooner than their peers at other higher education institutions. The CCNE-accredited* BSN degree program is available at 12 locations across the country, each featuring high-tech nursing labs and experienced faculty.

BSN Degree Locations

Arizona - Phoenix, Arizona

Florida - Jacksonville, Florida

Florida - Miramar, Florida

Georgia - Atlanta, Georgia

Illinois - Addison, Illinois

Illinois - Chicago, Illinois

Indiana - Indianapolis, Indiana

Missouri - St. Louis, Missouri

Ohio - Cleveland, Ohio

Ohio - Columbus, Ohio

Texas - Houston, Texas

Virginia - Arlington, Virginia

Chamberlain College of Nursing's Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN) degree program enables students to earn their BSN degree in as few as three years of year-round study instead of the typical four years.

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

OK, your "3" years is a little disingenuous because you're cramming the same 120 or so credits into a shorter time span, but spend the same amount of time in school and pay the full credit load. Most people probably are graduating to unemployment.

OK, your "3" years is a little disingenuous because you're cramming the same 120 or so credits into a shorter time span, but spend the same amount of time in school and pay the full credit load. Most people probably are graduating to unemployment.
Lots of students would love to "cram" a BSN into 3 years. Why not? You say yourself they get the same credit hours. So why would they be less like to land a job? Many of us are quite capable of juggling our time and of taking on a demanding, full school schedule. I went to a PN program that was Monday through Friday 8am to 5pm. I also worked full time third shift. I passed with a 3.8 GPA. I'm confused as to why you think condensing a BSN into 3 years is an undesirable and/or unrealistic thing.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Lots of students would love to "cram" a BSN into 3 years. Why not? You say yourself they get the same credit hours. So why would they be less like to land a job? Many of us are quite capable of juggling our time and of taking on a demanding, full school schedule. I went to a PN program that was Monday through Friday 8am to 5pm. I also worked full time third shift. I passed with a 3.8 GPA. I'm confused as to why you think condensing a BSN into 3 years is an undesirable and/or unrealistic thing.

Agree with this. I've been thinking that the whole concept of chronological time for a program is heading in the direction of obsolete. The reason would be that when we're talking about nursing education, there is a rapid proliferation of combinations possible between online, brick and mortar, "accelerated" degree programs, eligibility to sit for the NCLEX-PN partway through an RN program and many others. When you throw the variation and differences in general ed and prerequisite requirements schools offer for the same degree, it doesn't make sense to argue between 18 months and 2 years, or 3 and 4 years, etc.

Right, if the end result is the same, who cares the path taken to get there.

And, really, a BSN grad who's draaaaaged their education over 6 years or so is less prepared to hit the floor than a grad with the *same* amount of credits who condensed it into half the time.

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