ADN's being pushed out - page 6
I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned ADN nurses are being fired.... Read More
- 2Aug 11, '12 by RN In FLQuote from JustADreamVery well stated!!! And thanks for the link about the Magnet hospitals! I graduated in 1988, and I have no idea about simulation labs. LOL Yeah we had a "make-shift" hospital room, with "Resi-Annie" in the bed...LOL if anybody remember her, with a hole so big in the private part for practice for inserting foleys...heheheYou can read about Magnet status here: American Nurses Credentialing Center - ANCC - American Nurses Credentialing Center - ANCC
Keep in mind that again the quality of the individual program is determined by the program itself and isn't really a matter of ADN vs. BSN. I have never heard of an ADN program in my state that did not have a multitude of clinical rotations at various community hospitals. In my ASN program we did clinicals right alongside our BSN counterparts (often on the same unit) and they were for longer stretches for the accelerated format. We also learned cardiac rhythms. We did spend time each semester in a simulation lab and in a skills lab, but so do the BSN programs.
For comparison, a friend of mine is in a BSN program right now at a nearby institution and she keeps telling me she is questioning whether she made the right decision to go the route she did. She wants her BSN and that is what made her decision originally when she was accepted to both an ASN and BSN program, but now she feels like her instructors are not really connected with the students and that she is never allowed to actually do anything in clinicals compared to the people in the ASN program beside her. Her main concern seems to be that she feels she will graduate at a significant deficit in the hands-on/bedside care department. I remind her that she will have her BSN when she is done and will have greater education in nursing theory, but she is still primarily worrying over her ability to care for patients.
My whole rambling point is that just like with the good and bad individual nurses, there are good and bad programs across the US regardless of which degree the individual pursues. I personally encourage folks that ask me about nursing school to look into the programs they are considering and compare them. Talk to people that just graduated. Attend an information seminar- those kinds of things.
Anyway, I will continue to treat others the way I would like to be treated and I absolutely refuse to judge nurses based on their education background. Some of the best nurses I have ever met were diploma-prepared way back when. I'd love to be able to pick up even just a portion of the wisdom that they have earned in all of their years of practice.
- 0Quote from JPinto01This is nothing like how it is in my area. My ADN program did clinical rotations at every single major hospital in the are (all Magnet) and we even did more Magnet hospital based clinical rotations than one of the BSN programs. We also learned cardiac rhythms in depth and I took courses in acute/critical care nursing which I have heard is uncommon in ADN programs.I took summer classes at the local community college here and compared the curriculum for the ASN program to the BSN program that I am in and there are some differences in the type of training received and classes taken. Cardiac rhythms are taught at my program which are not offered at the local community college. In addition, the BSN program participates in clinicals at the local Magnet hospital whereas the community college has simulation labs only. I think it really depends on the school you go to. Pennsylvania is phasing out ASN's completely. If you want a hospital job, you'll need your BSN.
The simulation labs are really awesome, but certainly not a replacement. Taking care of an ICU patient during a code on a Sim did, however, help me feel more comfortable in the ICU in clinicals.
- 5Aug 11, '12 by BlueDevil,DNPQuote from fakebeeThis is perfectly stated. Know your local market. If your area employers are still hiring associate degree prepared RNs in significant numbers, you have nothing to worry about for now. If they are not, start investigating your options for continuing education. The rest of the argument about the quality of one school vs another is childish and a moot point. At the end of the day, you must have what they want or you won't get the job, period. All the hand wringing, complaining and wishing it weren't so doesn't change the cold facts of economic reality. What other choice do you have? Get over it and get on with it.Doesn't really matter what side of the fence you're on in the ADN vs. BSN debate or what you may think is or isn't fair...the bottom line is that if employers want their nurses to have a BSN or even an MSN then we as nurses will do as they require or go hungry.
- 0Aug 11, '12 by BlueDevil,DNPI agree that there are often significant differences in traditional University baccalaureate degrees and ADN to BSN completion programs. However, while it is commonplace in my neck of the woods for ADNs not to be considered for most positions, that is the first time I have heard of an ADN to BSN completion degree being unacceptable even in the present day "BSN preferred" environment.
- 0Here's a list of the courses I took in my ADN program. It doesn't seem like much is really missing from a typical BSN program...
Introduction to Professional Nursing: Concepts and Practice
Nursing Care of Adults and Older Adults I
Pathophysiology for Nursing Practice
Introduction to Therapeutic Communication for Health Professionals
Pharmacology for Nurses
Scholarship for Evidence Based Practice
Nursing Care of Adults and Older Adults
Cultural Competence in Health Care: US and Global Contexts
Concepts in Community Health Nursing
Nursing Care of Children and Their Families
Nursing Care of Women and Their Families During Reproductive Transitions
Psychiatric and Mental Health Nursing
Using Advanced Nursing Skills to Manage the Care of Critically Ill Adult Patients
Leadership and Management of Nursing Practice
Before starting, I had to take lifespan development psychology, anatomy, physiology, statistics, nutrition, and microbiology. We had about 1200 clinical hours and do a preceptorship our last semester.
- 3Aug 11, '12 by CarryThatWeightThis seems to be an age old debate. In my mind, there are two realities. 1) A lot of regions in the U.S. are indeed not hiring as many ADN's, or are not hiring any at all. While Magnet does not require a certain percentage of nurses to be BSN prepared, Magnet hospitals and those pursuing Magnet status seem to be the worst when it comes to passing over qualified ADN's for BSN applicants. Many of us, myself included, are forced to get the BSN in order to find a job. What choice do we have? 2) ADN vs. BSN education can be debated, but we all know BSN's that are not the best nurses and ADN's and diploma grads that are absolutely stellar. There are good schools and bad schools out there, regardless of degree level. When I'm in the patient bed, I want a nurse that knows what he/she is doing. Period. I really don't care to ask their level of education. In most respects, there is no substitute for experience. It is too bad so many hospitals fail to recognize that.
- 8Aug 11, '12 by Mom2ChaosI do not want to feed the animosity of this debate, as I feel it is senseless. But I am inclined to make two comments:
1. It has been my observation that there is far more contempt coming from ADN nurses/student s towards BSN's than the other way around.
2. As the market has become further saturated with RN's, education becomes one way to differentiate job candidates. Not the ONLY way, as experience is valuable, but all other things being equal it becomes a distinction.
3. In an environment where jobs like Pharmacy Tech and welder now require an associates degree, whereas it was once on OJT training, why are we shocked that the bar is being lifted in our industry?
4. RN's are still better-off than social workers- where the baseline degree is a Masters, and after licensing they can hope to find a $30k per year job.