ADN vs BSN pay for RN

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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I have always heard that no matter what level of education you have if you are working on the floor as an RN then you get paid the same if you have your ADN or your BSN, (not considering floors, locations, experience, ect. just education). Is this true?

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

OMG thank you for that post regarding the infamous Aiken report, Vicky.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
My VA doesn't hire LPNs or ADNs anymore either. The trend is totally going towards BSN and higher. The VA takes safety very seriously and that's why their hospitals have the highest safety ratings in the US. They go along with the research that more BSNs on a floor equals lower morbidity rates. I work with excellent ADNs and LPNs. Also, LPNs in the VA system are not allowed to do as much as RNs. They mainly give meds. They can't do patient assessments at all. At least not in the Las Vegas VA hospital. Maybe it's different in other areas.
Well then they may have a hard time finding bedside nurses in the next several years, as the shortage deepens. The fact remains, upwards of 60-70% of firstime RN's graduate with an ADN degree. And that does not count LPNs. Just WHERE they will get their "all BSN" force nationwide will prove interesting in the next 10-20 years. I also know nothing about your VA facility, but there are some that are VERY undesireable workplaces as well as hospitals to be a patient in. Others, yep they are outstanding, true. It varies by facility (which I think is sad).

I can't say I would leave my current specialty (OB) to work in an "all BSN" VA facility. I like where I am fine, and would continue as an OB nurse or OB clinical teacher no matter what my education winds up being. But hey that is just me.

One more thing: could you point us to the studies you refer to, saying the VA facilities are the safest nationwide? I am curious, as honestly, this is the first time I have heard this statistic. Thanks!

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The VA facility I work in is an excellent, up to date facility. I also worked in the same hospital when I was active duty Air Force. The VA is top notch when it comes to benefits. Where else do you get 4 weeks vacation, 2 weeks paid sick leave and 11 paid holidays your first year? I can combine my 8 years military service with 12 years VA service and retire after the combined 20 years. Also, they will pay 100% for MSN and any certifications after I work for them 1 year. That's worth doing.

As for the all BSN force, so many of the current LPNs and ADNs have been with VA for years and will stay in their current pay scale until they retire. They don't seem to have difficulty recruiting BSNs. They have an excellent nurse apprentice program that is only open to BSNs. That is a major way they recruit new BSNs. The program is 1 year long, after your 2nd semester and you must have at least a 3.0 and go through an interview, etc. That's what I'm doing right now.

As for the safety, my husband works in healthcare quality improvement and he probably knows the info off the top of his head.

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Specializes in OB, lactation.

This study that came out this year is kinda like the other one, I don't have any idea if it has the same flaws or what but it would be cool to see an analysis. Does anyone know the scoop on it?

Abstract:

http://www.nursingresearchonline.com/pt/re/nnr/abstract.00006199-200503000-00002.htm;jsessionid=Dmtpe1K24fbmf4wB8a6yFCzzpmd2gLMoE1o1R46xFNEaep181BKM!1096311956!-949856145!9001!-1

Reference info:

The Impact of Hospital Nursing Characteristics on 30-Day Mortality.

Nursing Research. 54(2):74-84, March/April 2005.

Estabrooks, Carole A.; Midodzi, William K.; Cummings, Greta G.; Ricker, Kathryn L.; Giovannetti, Phyllis

It's long, but in part:

"Significant interhospital differences were found by comparing variations in mortality among hospitals. In particular, after adjusting for important individual patient characteristics and comorbidities, and other institutional characteristics, significant hospital nursing variables, which were associated with lower patient mortality among hospitals were as follows: higher nurse education levels, a richer skill mix of nursing staff, better nurse-physician relationships, and lower casual and temporary employment.

...The fact that several significant institutional and hospital nursing characteristics at the hospital level explain a considerable amount of variation in 30-day mortality across hospitals indicates that these factors deserve serious consideration. Attention to the improvement of modifiable conditions that influence 30-day mortality has the potential to improve the prognosis for patients with these medical diagnoses. These findings support policies that improve the work environment for providers, in this case, nurses. Deliberately focusing on the work environment should improve patient and system outcomes. Each of the four hospital nursing characteristics--higher nurse education levels, a richer skill mix of nursing staff, better nurse-physician relationships, and lower casual and temporary employment--are modifiable conditions."

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

They recuit nurses EVERYwhere. The issue is not recruitment but retention. And there is but a limited pool from which to draw BSN nurses, and it will grow smaller, I fear, in the years to come.

I would love to see the studies when you get your hands on them. Really, as I said, this is news to me, that VA facilities are safer than any other to be found.

Glad you enjoy working where you do, however. That is always good to see.

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Geriatric, Behavioral Health.
Attention to the improvement of modifiable conditions that influence 30-day mortality has the potential to improve the prognosis for patients with these medical diagnoses. These findings support policies that improve the work environment for providers, in this case, nurses. Deliberately focusing on the work environment should improve patient and system outcomes.

In a nutshell, yes. Nurses of all educational backgrounds have been saying this for years...if you want improvement, focus on the immediate work environment first. I think "THAT" as a "confounding variable" needs to be addressed first before any true meaning data can present itself later (with regard to nursing preparation).

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

Vicky, you did an excellent job with that analysis. You should get that published. Kudos and thanks!

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Specializes in ER.

At my hospital, ADNs are paid the exact same as BSNs. Only BSNs can apply for administration/management positions. Crazy, IMO b/c I want to go on when I'm done w/ my ADN to get my BSN - but except for the fact that I have to have BSN before going on to NP (or whatever I decide to go further in), there's no motivation to go there - no pay difference or whatever. And who really wants to sell out and work in management??? ICK!!!!!!!!

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Specializes in Gerontological, cardiac, med-surg, peds.
Vicky, you did an excellent job with that analysis. You should get that published. Kudos and thanks!

Thanks, Tweety. Made an "A" in my advanced nursing research class :smokin: - that's reward enough... :)

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Specializes in Critical Care, Pediatrics, Geriatrics.
Well then they may have a hard time finding bedside nurses in the next several years, as the shortage deepens. The fact remains, upwards of 60-70% of firstime RN's graduate with an ADN degree. And that does not count LPNs. Just WHERE they will get their "all BSN" force nationwide will prove interesting in the next 10-20 years.

You read my mind:coollook:

With the dramatic nursing shortage that is only continuing to grow, and the vast portability of a BSN degree, how do these facilities expect to keep a safe amount of staff available for pt care without hiring ADNs and LPNs?

Frankly, as an ADSN, I find this demeaning. In my state, the only difference in ADN and BSN is a few management courses...in fact, I am already accepted to a RN-BSN-MSN program that is only two years in length and I have already accumalated upwards of 90 college hours, primarily in math & science (besides nursing of course). If a facility told me that I wouldn't be hired for bedside care because I needed a BSN with the added admin/mgmt courses, I don't believe I would return to that facility two year's later after I have my Master's:angryfire :uhoh3:

Way to promote nursing as a profession when half our nurses can't get a job :nurse: ADNs and LPNs are nurses too:mad:

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
Thanks, Tweety. Made an "A" in my advanced nursing research class :smokin: - that's reward enough... :)

A well deserved A for sure!

Having just finished basic Nursing Research, I'm in awe.:bowingpur :bowingpur :bowingpur

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Specializes in Neuro, Critical Care.
A well deserved A for sure!

Having just finished basic Nursing Research, I'm in awe.:bowingpur :bowingpur :bowingpur

I also enjoyed the post in rebuttal to the study. I am an MN student and hear a lot about the entry into the profession issue. It is really hard to hear what your profs are saying and still form your own opinion. When you have nurse PhD's spilling out all of their opinions and research, its just hard to keep an open mind. THanks Vicki for giving me another side to see.

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