Do you feel that humans are innately abusive/cruel? - page 2

Over my years of living, I feel this way, that all persons are innately abusive and cruel to other human beings and that socialisation doesn't do much to improve this but redirects this and covers it... Read More

  1. by   lucianne
    Children are not bad.
  2. by   z's playa
    Quote from lucianne
    Children are not bad.
    In my opinion...children can be the worst and the cruelest. Not all but MANY!!!
  3. by   StuPer
    I too do not believe children are cruel, they lack the ethical and moral framework that is developed from around the age 10+, any unusually cruel child before that age I would suggest is a product of some traumatic experiences, or a poor parenting role model.. or both.
    As for animals, well they too lack that ethical framework they are simply doing what comes naturally... and from a human perspective many animals can be incredibly cruel... but thats the point... they are'nt human and its a mistake to apply our values to them. Here in Australia we had a surfer killed by a shark a few days ago... i thought it was very telling that his brother arued against hunting the shark down... "that would just be a pointless act of revenge".. the authorities duly took the families point of view in to account and are currently hunting the shark down anyway.

    My avatar comes form the british comedy show 'Red Dwarf' and his name is MrFlibble... he is psychotic and shoots people down with lazer beams from his eyes... lol
    regards StuPer
  4. by   z's playa
    Look at how many children a day are victimized at the hands of bullies...I being one of them in Gr 3.

    That's not cruel?

    Kids are not that innocent.
  5. by   StuPer
    Hi z's playa,
    Yes I agree some bullying behaviour is cruel, and as I posted earlier I would say those children have been subject to poor parenting role models, trauma, or both. When kids act together in a bullying behaviour I would say that is a 'pack mentality' as seen in the animal kingdom, and indicative of children not having developed that ethical and moral framework to understand the impact of what they are doing. Incidentialy I too was a victim of horrendous bullying in a number of locations, and some of the children that took part most likely went on to develop full blown personality disorders and others were simply 'pack members' and went on hopefully to become 'normal' members of society.
  6. by   hypnotic_nurse
    When my daughter was 1 (walking but not talking) she got her first pair of hard soled, shiny new shoes.

    Her grandma, who she stayed with while I worked, hated crickets and would step on them (at home, I caught the crickets and put them outside).

    One day when I went to pick her up at Grandma's, she saw a cricket on the sidewalk, picked up her foot as far as she could and STOMPED the cricket flat. Then she looked at it and sucked her thumb...thinking pretty hard...then she reached down and patted it.

    Kids are sometimes cruel because they haven't been shown how to be kind in each situation that they encounter, IMHO. And the younger they are, the harder it is for them to apply learned lessons to different situations.
  7. by   ahearthealer
    Aren't we somewhat conditioned to expect man's inhumanity to man by the media?

    In looking at my own life, I can't really remember anyone was as mean and cruel as those I learn about on TV, in the newspaper or NPR. The exception, I guess, is the teen my family knew who was very likely antisocial...but 'course, I didn't know what that was "way back then".

    I feel very fortunate that most of those around me are pretty neat people.

    Todd
  8. by   susanna
    Quote from StuPer
    Hi z's playa,
    Yes I agree some bullying behaviour is cruel, and as I posted earlier I would say those children have been subject to poor parenting role models, trauma, or both. When kids act together in a bullying behaviour I would say that is a 'pack mentality' as seen in the animal kingdom, and indicative of children not having developed that ethical and moral framework to understand the impact of what they are doing.
    I can remember as a kid being bullied by kids who came from excellent families. I truly don't think humans are meant to be genuinely and deep-down kind, even if raised in a very kind, loving environment. People just want to exert their power over other people to feel good about themselves. I think that a lot of people like to see what its like for other people to be shamed, hurt, and in pain.
    But its not like this viewpoint makes me a harsher person; I actually think this makes me a kinder person because, this way, I can more easily accept other people and how they are and how their implusions are instead of getting angry or accusatory or bitter or distrustful. Don't you guys think this is the right, most humane way to view the world?
  9. by   Chaya
    Quote from hypnotic_nurse
    I think everyone within them has seeds of cruelty and seeds of goodness...what winds up growing has a lot to do with environment and the person's own inclinations.
    Well said. I find I need to believe that most people can move toward the goodness in themselves. I need to believe we can all influence others around us to do so.
  10. by   finness
    "and nothing more should be expected of human beings."

    after listening to blonde jokes for over an hour, scientists discovered that blondes scored an average of seven points lower on their iq test then they did prior to being exposed to slanderous humor. sociologists and scientists alike argue that we become what society wants us to be. such cynicism does nothing but generate more malevolence--roles which the untoward and underprivileged are happy to fill. how can it be that people who have dedicated their lives, at the very least, their careers, to serving humanity could be so oblivious their impact on the behavior of others? maybe i am inexperienced, altruistic and nave, but i truly believe that we have nothing but boundless potential to do constructive things with our lives. the ability to choose good over bad is what makes us extraordinary...and what makes us human.

    shaking my head.
  11. by   susanna
    Quote from finness
    "and nothing more should be expected of human beings."

    after listening to blonde jokes for over an hour, scientists discovered that blondes scored an average of seven points lower on their iq test then they did prior to being exposed to slanderous humor. sociologists and scientists alike argue that we become what society wants us to be. such cynicism does nothing but generate more malevolence--roles which the untoward and underprivileged are happy to fill.
    shaking my head.
    finness, i didn't say that the whole world should treat human beings in any slanderous way, such as by making any slanderous remarks or pushing them down. i don't believe anyone needs to be punished, whipped, beaten, humiliated, or socially pressured to be anything. i suggested that maliciousness and the desire to abuse others is something that should be expected and accepted as something that is a desire and impulse within every human being. unless you see everything black and white, that does not necessarily mean that you have to work around like a cynical duck and push everyone around you towards acting malicious. its another thing to walk around and abuse people into doing things you want them to.

    its one thing to discuss maliciousness of human beings on a website and to question its universality. i think its very important to discuss and understand all aspects of the human psyche, even the ones we are uncomfortable with, like human sexual drive, the drive to want to have sex with other human beings, the altruistic drive, the drive to benefit others, and yes, the drive to want to manipulate and abuse other human beings. personally, if i cannot discuss these things, i will not understand or give them respect in any way. so i think open discussion about all things in life is very good.

    "maybe i am inexperienced, altruistic and nave, but i truly believe that we have nothing but boundless potential to do constructive things with our lives. the ability to choose good over bad is what makes us extraordinary...and what makes us human."

    and you can't do anything constructive until you know what you're dealing with, can you? i didn't bring up this topic to have a debate over what people think is "good" and "bad". i brought it up to have an open and honest discussion about humans and their need to abuse and act cruelly in order to feel powerful. just like if i brought up a discussion about sex and did not want to discuss whether it was good or bad but whether how strong of a human need it was. wouldn't you find it rude to see people posting in response, "it is wrong for you to assume that people need to have sex and to discuss what sex means to human beings and how much of a need it is and how widespread it is. sex is obviously bad and to see humans as sexual beings is obviously bad, you incapable healthcare worker, susanna. we extraordinary human beings have the ability to choose not to do dirty, bad things such as sex. i shake my head at you for discussing this." ???

    my question to you is: what exactly are you arguing for or against? that this topic not be discussed and people not post honestly on how they feel? do you really think that its not constructive or useful to discuss this sort of thing and if so, why did u post?
  12. by   Energizer Bunny
    The only time I can remember acting cruely towards someone to exert power was in high school ONE TIME. I wasn't even going to respond to this thread but the fact that some of you think children are mean has got me fried. yes, there are bad ones out there. Of course there are. But I firmly believe that they have not been taught how to love and be kind and treat others as they wish to be treated. I look at my five year old, three year old and nine month old and they really don't know how to be mean to another human being. Even when they hit each other and I reprimand them, they are immediately sorry and we have a talk about what they have done and why. The only way my children will end up being mean bullies is if I stop being involved in their lives or if I stop talking to them and showing them how to treat others.

    Now, my husband would agree with you, OP, that humans are basically cruel and abusive. He and I differ on this immensely. I believe that we all have great capacity to love and be charitable and MANY of us do so on a regular basis. If we don't, maybe we should look at our original upbringing. We are brought into the world innocent, knowing nothing and are TAUGHT how to act.
  13. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from StuPer
    I too do not believe children are cruel, they lack the ethical and moral framework that is developed from around the age 10+, any unusually cruel child before that age I would suggest is a product of some traumatic experiences, or a poor parenting role model.. or both.
    As for animals, well they too lack that ethical framework they are simply doing what comes naturally... and from a human perspective many animals can be incredibly cruel... but thats the point... they are'nt human and its a mistake to apply our values to them. Here in Australia we had a surfer killed by a shark a few days ago... i thought it was very telling that his brother arued against hunting the shark down... "that would just be a pointless act of revenge".. the authorities duly took the families point of view in to account and are currently hunting the shark down anyway.

    My avatar comes form the british comedy show 'Red Dwarf' and his name is MrFlibble... he is psychotic and shoots people down with lazer beams from his eyes... lol
    regards StuPer
    I think you have the childs' innate tendencies confused with the moral and ethical behaviors our parents teach us. We are born self centered, cruel to the point of murder (when we are big enough) to get what we want. Our upbringing teaches us their are better ways.

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