Would you rather have a child said to be SS or abort? - page 4

This is a question one of my patients had asked me.Very difficult one. She had gone to a genetic counsellor as her doctor ordered but feels she doesn't want to keep the baby because of associated... Read More

  1. by   SuesquatchRN
    pearl, your sources are purely anecdotal, not scientific. Further, http://www.catholicsocialscientists.org/ is scarcely unbiased.

    You are welcome to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

    I'm out of this, though, or this will devolve into a discussion about abortion rights, not the specific situation in question here.
  2. by   herecomestrouble
    I could be wrong but if her and her husband both carry the gene then there probably are relatives on both sides who have sickle cell,right?So has she talked to them about what its llike living with this ?What does the father think?Have they discussed all the options?

    I see I have no answers just more questions
  3. by   pearl4M92
    Suesquatch-
    Your site is hardly unbiased. Besides it isn't my opinion, but fact. I have many other sources, such as the group "Silent No More" made of of many women that greatly regret their abortions. If you read all the material on the sites you would see that it isn't bias. The one site has women that were once pro-choice and why they became pro-life.
    You think that because your opion is scientific rather than based on a Higher Power(G-D) that it is fact. Trust me it isn't.
    In history Native Americans were considered less than human, then African Americans, then us Jewish people by the Nazis. Now it is the unborn human baby.
    I believe in science and the creator of it(G-d). I believe that taking a human life simply because the child may be handicap in some way or is inconvenient is wrong. This is just my opinion. This poor woman should be give help and her baby as well. She is 5 months pregnant for Pete's sake. Do you know the stage of developement that baby is in? Do you know what an aborted baby looks like at that stage? Do you know what that baby would go through? What that mother would go through afterwards?
    Why don't you see the movie "a Silent Scream" and see the video about Sarah Smith, a survivor of an abortion. Read her testimony.
    http://www.prolife.com/SARAH2.html
    I have talked with countless women and conforted them regarding their abortions. It is great that you felt relieved, but you are in the minority. Believe me.
  4. by   imenid37
    Bottom line...It's the patient's decision. She needs to own it and analyze the information herself. As long as she has gotten an explanation in terms she understands, this is almost completely up to her. I say almost, because depending on gestation, some providers would not feel it is ethical to terminate the pg due to her particular situation. I am sure she can find a provider willing to do the ab if she wants it done.
  5. by   KellNY
    Pearl, do you realize the irony in posting a link that is clearly from a PROLIFE site?

    I think a lot of the guilt felt by women who have abortions is caused by these types of messages--they are made to feel like guilt and regret is expected of them. They're told what a mistake they're making, harassed and often lied to at abortion provider's offices, and bombarded by comments from society. They're made to feel like they should feel bad, and that there must be something wrong with them if they don't, which is not the case.

    Suesquatch, I too, felt relief. There was some regret-but that was mostly that I had gotten pregnant to begin with, and that I wasn't in the place I wanted to be in life, not that I had terminated my pregnancy.

    How mnay studies were done on the emotional effects on the birth mother on surrendering her baby for adoption? Not to mention, a sick black baby isn't really high on the "desired" baby list for prospective adoptive parents. Statistically, that baby has a very high chance of spending most of its life in foster care or modern day orphanages. I'm not saying she shouldn't consider this option, but lets focus on the reality of the situation.

    No one here knows what the full situation is. Maybe the testing showed that the Sickle Cell had already caused damage to the fetus (and it can cause hypoxia to a developing fetus)? Maybe there is some co-morbidity that was not mentioned. We don't know.

    But you know what? We can't suggest to this woman anything, because as a nurse, it is not our place. Our place is to provide unbiased facts, present all available options and let her chose what is best for her and her family.
  6. by   coolpeach
    Its a hard call, and she should do whats in her heart. There are a lot of times that these tests are correct, and there is something wrong with the baby. They say god gives special babies to special people. She just needs to make the choice she can most live with. I can see how she might feel guilt for aborting, or could also feel guilt for bringing a child with medical problems into the world. Help your friend talk through how she feels so she can make the best choice for HER.

    I must also tell you that sometimes the tests are wrong. I have a wonderful, healthy 11 year old named Zachary who is the light of my life. When I was pregnant with him the doctor thought he had some problems, and would be born with downs, or possibly retarded, and he encouraged me to abort, but I just felt in my heart I couldn't do that to Zach (who I had already named a month earlier). At any rate, when I was eight months he told me that for some reason I couldn't carry Zach to term because he would die if I did so, and he would be taking him the next week. Then a few days later he said I was too small, and therefor Zach was too small, and would have problems if delivered, but he had no choice. I had a sono which made us all feel better because it showed Zach weighed right at 5 pounds. The very next day I delievered Zachary Levi who weighed 8 pounds 6 ounces, and scored a 10 on the APGAR scale. You can't tell me he gained 3 pounds and 6 ounces in 12 hours. Zachary does NOT have downs, and he is NOT retarded. As a matter of he is perfectly healthy, smart (a little too smart sometimes), and very happy. I can't imagine a my life without him in it. If I had listened to the doctor I would have a sad story to tell about the the baby I had to abort because of medical problems, but instead I have a miricle.
  7. by   kidznurse
    My friend had an abortion at 18 weeks last year. Her baby was wanted but not at any cost . She had trisomy 13 on amniocentesis, was very small and had a major cardiac defect. The syndrome is generally incompatible with life . I would have supported my friend whatever choice she made because there is no perfect solution. I have nursed families torn apart by the pain and suffering of their little ones, who have lived for weeks or years with syndromes. They have not been able to live with out intrusive unnatural medical science , I have nursed mothers who have suffered major depression nursing children like this for the first few months of their lives. I have also known those who have felt that the experience strengthened them.
    We as nurses should never judge but be there for those we care for . My friend had wonderful nurses there for her when she gave birth to her aborted baby. I helped by being a support person for the childs death and delivery and helped by making suggestions for her funeral. I always refer to my friends dead baby by name. Although they grieved at the loss I know this friend and her other children would have suffered more through nursing a dying infant. My friend faints at the sight of blood and hates hospitals and medicines . It would have torn her apart and I think for her she made the right decision and that is all that matters.
  8. by   NurseLatteDNP
    I would absolutely have the child. I think that God would give me only what I could handle.
  9. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from kidznurse
    My friend had an abortion at 18 weeks last year. Her baby was wanted but not at any cost . She had trisomy 13 on amniocentesis, was very small and had a major cardiac defect. The syndrome is generally incompatible with life . I would have supported my friend whatever choice she made because there is no perfect solution. I have nursed families torn apart by the pain and suffering of their little ones, who have lived for weeks or years with syndromes. They have not been able to live with out intrusive unnatural medical science , I have nursed mothers who have suffered major depression nursing children like this for the first few months of their lives. I have also known those who have felt that the experience strengthened them.
    We as nurses should never judge but be there for those we care for . My friend had wonderful nurses there for her when she gave birth to her aborted baby. I helped by being a support person for the childs death and delivery and helped by making suggestions for her funeral. I always refer to my friends dead baby by name. Although they grieved at the loss I know this friend and her other children would have suffered more through nursing a dying infant. My friend faints at the sight of blood and hates hospitals and medicines . It would have torn her apart and I think for her she made the right decision and that is all that matters.
    I know a young couple with the same situation who decided not to abort and gave birth to a child who had no chance at life, they held her as she died. It was very hard but the right thing for them.

    Comparing birth defects incompatible with life is not the same as sickle cell anemia.

    I personally know many women who have had abortions who regretted it and to say it is only because of the guilt heaped upon them by others is a stereotype too. Each side needs to be careful of perpetuating stereotypes.

    steph
  10. by   bookworm1
    How mnay studies were done on the emotional effects on the birth mother on surrendering her baby for adoption? Not to mention, a sick black baby isn't really high on the "desired" baby list for prospective adoptive parents. Statistically, that baby has a very high chance of spending most of its life in foster care or modern day orphanages. I'm not saying she shouldn't consider this option, but lets focus on the reality of the situation.

    No one here knows what the full situation is. Maybe the testing showed that the Sickle Cell had already caused damage to the fetus (and it can cause hypoxia to a developing fetus)? Maybe there is some co-morbidity that was not mentioned. We don't know.




    The decision truly belongs to the mother, but I must say, I am an adoptive mother of one of these amazing children. My son is doing very well in spite of the fact that he is type SS. Does he suffer? That goes without saying. His vitality and zest for life tells me that he enjoys every minute of his life. He is fully aware of his disease, even at his young age, but I truly doubt if he would have chosen the alternative. There are many recent advances in available treatments for this disease and many more treatments being explored every day. Several people have been CURED of the disease by bone marrow transfusions, although this is still highly experimental. Life expectancy for those suffering from type SS has expanded greatly. Doctors are sure that good nutrition and education are keys to avoiding sickling and pain episodes. Those that suffer the most are often the ones that have made poor decisions about their own personal care (nutrition, drugs,etc.) or have been cared for poorly.
    Genetic counseling has been available for years and the mother should have been capable of making an educated decision regarding whether or not to have children. If that is not the case, she should avoid panicking and educate herself fully about the disease and decide what she is capable of handling now and in the future. These children are not 'throw away' children. I would be delighted to add another to our family, but adoption is not for everyone. I am not trying to come off pro-life (although I am) but I feel that those fully educated about the disease are more capable of making a sound decision.
  11. by   imenid37
    Quote from stevielynn
    IComparing birth defects incompatible with life is not the same as sickle cell anemia.
    I personally know many women who have had abortions who regretted it and to say it is only because of the guilt heaped upon them by others is a stereotype too. Each side needs to be careful of perpetuating stereotypes.

    steph
    I have to agree w/ you. I would also add that as nurses on either side of this issue, you need to put your own opinion aside. I remember a couple who gave birth to a child w/ multiple defects which were incompatable w/ life. The mom and dad wanted whatever time they could have to cherish time w/ this child who died shortly after delivery. Many of the staff and docs wanted to know why they didn't abort when this was the inevitable end. In fact, the couple felt pressured to abort. Like it or not abortion is legal. It is the woman's option, not the nurses' or medical staff's to impose upon a patient, nor is it our professional role to propagate the prolife side at work. All we can do is make sure the patient is educated and accept her informed decision. Many times, both sides are so tied to their own viewpoint on this very polarizing issue that they forget it is up to the patient, not the staff. BTW people do and don't regret either decision that they make. This is human nature. It doesn't make one side wrong or right. It is simply the way life is.
  12. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from imenid37
    I have to agree w/ you. I would also add that as nurses on either side of this issue, you need to put your own opinion aside. I remember a couple who gave birth to a child w/ multiple defects which were incompatable w/ life. The mom and dad wanted whatever time they could have to cherish time w/ this child who died shortly after delivery. Many of the staff and docs wanted to know why they didn't abort when this was the inevitable end. In fact, the couple felt pressured to abort. Like it or not abortion is legal. It is the woman's option, not the nurses' or medical staff's to impose upon a patient, nor is it our professional role to propagate the prolife side at work. All we can do is make sure the patient is educated and accept her informed decision. Many times, both sides are so tied to their own viewpoint on this very polarizing issue that they forget it is up to the patient, not the staff. BTW people do and don't regret either decision that they make. This is human nature. It doesn't make one side wrong or right. It is simply the way life is.
    I have to agree with you too.

    The couple I know did get pressure from health professionals to abort.

    Unprofessional at whatever level.

    steph
  13. by   cvierling
    I have 5 kids, none of which were perfect, although none had any serious medical conditions. However, I was told that one of my babies had a "small head" while still pregnant. Turns out the doctor had my due date wrong. Doctors aren't perfect, neither is medical science. We all seem to be seeking perfection. My second child was the biggest challenge of my life because of personality problems, which of course doctors can't test for in utero! My point is, none of us is dealt the perfect hand in life and we have to do the best with what we have by the grace of God. He is there to bear our burdens with us. We don't have the right to "dispose" of what seems to fall short of our expectations.

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