New LPNs going to EC....why not?

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Tele, Peds, LDRP.

Hey everyone,

Im a soon to be new LPN (graduating in a week thank goodness!) and I have read in several threads and heard from many people that they dont advise new LPNs to get their RN through Excelsior.

The reason it bugs me is that through local traditional programs, the generic RN students get less clinical experience in two years than we got in one year in LPN school. I have also observed that at OUR clinical site(Im not saying generally, this is only my experience), the ASN and BSN students would be seen sitting all day long in the nursing station or simply following a nurse while us LPN students were in there actually working day in and day out. I also have heard other nurses talking about how the new RNs nowdays are clueless and seem like they never went to school a day in their life. I think its because they do so much theory they dont get a good grasp of what the one on one patient care is all about.

There are very few duties RNs do that LPNs cant, its mostly just a matter of a little more education/theory. Most LPNs who go to traditional ASN programs have said they are suprised that there really isnt a whole lot more to it, they only go into most of the same things in more detail. And as far as clinicals, they are a breeze after already taking LPN clinicals. I dont see much of a difference between LPN to RN online and RN to BSN online. You have already received the foundation. You learn the most when u actually get out there and work as a nurse, not in school. There are new RN grads out there with much less clinical experience than LPN school gives, yet everyone says you need to gain experience before going to Excelsior. I know the CPNE will be more challenging, but I dont see it as impossible. Most generic ASN programs dont require experience for their LPN to RN bridge, and EC doesnt specify this either.

Can someone please offer me another point of view? I just cant understand why this is. Not trying to start an argument here, Im genuinely interested in other opinions.

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There is a BIG difference in what the LPN and RN can do in certain areas. I had tons of clinicals in my 2 year LPN in Minnesota as well...but as a new LPN I would not have been ready for excelsior. They do not even hire LPN's at ORMC anymore. In my role there are things in my 10 years as an LPN that I had to learn precepting on the job....I personally think the whole excelsior approach should be experienced LPN's and paramedics, primarily so that employers see that non-traditional students can succeed. With limited LPN school experience that to me is not enough. Just my honest opinion.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Tele, Peds, LDRP.

DY,

thx for the reply (wasnt bc of the PM by the way, Ive been wanting to ask about this for a while ;) )

So, you are saying that a degree from EC would be less respected if a lot of new grad LPNs were going straight from LPN school to Excelsior? I know there is a lot of controversy over it since some states arent accepting it or have specific requirements (In FL I think they only allow LPNs, not RTs or medics). So I guess new nurses going thru it could add fuel to the fire. I can understand that point of view.

Also, ORMC does hire LPNs at Arnold Palmer on mother/baby (Id love to work there) and they are opening a new center affiliated with APH thats going to hire LPNs. Supposably they hire them on the neuro floor too (on days they are used as techs, nights they are used as nurses). I have seen some openings online too, but they require experience. But from what Ive heard even if u do get on there, the pay is the least you will find around for LPNs anywhere. BTW, do you know if ORMC allows tuition reimbursement for EC?

I guess am really impatient about getting my RN because Im ready to get on with life and get settled in my career, buy a house, start a family, etc. and I dont want to wait around to get in the transition program. I guess I should keep my options open just in case, Ive taken most of my pre reqs already but I need mirco and A&P II. I guess Ill go ahead and take those locally so if I decide to go thru Valencia's program Im all set to apply for next year. Their LPN to RN transition is online now, but it only starts once each January and its too late to apply for this year. So I could possibly start January 2007 and end January 2008. But with EC I could start around November this year and probably finish by the end of next year. thats whats attactive about it to me.

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DY,

I guess am really impatient about getting my RN because Im ready to get on with life and get settled in my career, buy a house, start a family, etc. and I dont want to wait around to get in the transition program.

Haste makes waste, don't rush into it. I'm down on Excelsior right now, though they have tightened up their standards a little (it used to be any Tom Dick and Harry could get in their program, then when states started questioning this and one state banned their graduates altogether, they tried to save face, but they were a day late and a dollar short, I'm afraid) it they still allow people in the program they should not.

I am majorly opposed to a new LPN going through Excelsior. No amount of bookwork and theory classes can account for actual work experience, and this program is meant for those with experience. After being an LPN for 4 yrs. and then going through EC's program I can understand how it fits into place.

Also, if an LPN's skill level and knowledge base was that of an RN's there would be no distinction. Of course, you have exceptions. The best nurse I have ever seen is an LPN, but she has been working in many areas of care from the ER to OB for 25 yrs. It's a shame she did not further her education because while she has so much knowledge and such skill she does not have the options she would have had as an RN.

Also, I used to hear LPN's say "that RN didn't even know how to put in a catheter." Well, I'm sorry, but replacing a catheter or NG or PEG tube might be a *skill* but it's not exactly high tech, and these things can be learned in about 30 minutes. RN's spend a great deal of time on knowledge. But I can also see the point of argument for those who believe that all RN's should be required to become LPN's first. Each discipline is skilled in its own right.

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Haste makes waste, don't rush into it. I'm down on Excelsior right now, though they have tightened up their standards a little (it used to be any Tom Dick and Harry could get in their program, then when states started questioning this and one state banned their graduates altogether, they tried to save face, but they were a day late and a dollar short, I'm afraid) it they still allow people in the program they should not.

I am majorly opposed to a new LPN going through Excelsior. No amount of bookwork and theory classes can account for actual work experience, and this program is meant for those with experience. After being an LPN for 4 yrs. and then going through EC's program I can understand how it fits into place.

Also, if an LPN's skill level and knowledge base was that of an RN's there would be no distinction. Of course, you have exceptions. The best nurse I have ever seen is an LPN, but she has been working in many areas of care from the ER to OB for 25 yrs. It's a shame she did not further her education because while she has so much knowledge and such skill she does not have the options she would have had as an RN.

Also, I used to hear LPN's say "that RN didn't even know how to put in a catheter." Well, I'm sorry, but replacing a catheter or NG or PEG tube might be a *skill* but it's not exactly high tech, and these things can be learned in about 30 minutes. RN's spend a great deal of time on knowledge. But I can also see the point of argument for those who believe that all RN's should be required to become LPN's first. Each discipline is skilled in its own right.

Very well put. I second those exact statements!

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Tele, Peds, LDRP.

Im just wondering how much more prepared I will be to be an RN going to a local comm. college, whose coursework is online now, only the students do 12 12 hr shift clinicals, vs working as an lpn over the same amount of time while going to excelsior where I would have many many more hours experience than that. My point is that even if I go straight through excelsior right away, Ill still get more experience between now and the CPNE than I would taking the few clinical rotations that the community college gives. By the time the CPNE comes, that will most likely be a year or more down the line....versus the community college 1 year LPN to RN bridge. Both are a year, so whats the difference? How much experience do you think should be required and if this is the case then it should be the same at any college that offers LPN to RN, not just EC, especially since many schools are now offering their coursework online now. I just dont understand the stigma attached to EC....Valencia CC's transition program is online, yet they dont require specific experience, only a current license and IV certification.

Also, I think that since some people are faster learners than others, LPN vs RN isnt a major difference other than credentials. There are plenty of super intelligent LPNs as well as incredibly dumb ones, and the same with RN's. Anyone is capable of learning anything they seek out to learn with or without the credentials to match. If one were to make it all the way through the program and pass the boards, I think they have proven they are quite capable when it comes to knowledge. After that point, its a matter of acquiring the skill level that is needed, which is what any new nurse has to do regardless of where they graduated from.

Honestly, chances are Ill end up waiting a year and going to Valencia for the extra security in case employers opinions are of a similar school of thought and I dont want to run into any problems getting a job. Ive worked too hard to have something like that hold me back. I guess the peace of mind is worth waiting an extra year...but Im still weighing my options.

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Specializes in Emergency, Family Practice, Occ. Health.

Just remember when making your decision, you are the judge of your abilities. If you are capable of taking the test and passing the CPNE you can do the EC program. No hospital cares where you got your ADN, they only care that you are warm with a pulse and an RN after your name. After you are in the job you will learn all of the department specific skills and techniques. I wouldn't wait to take a program if I were you. Do it and get it done.

IMHO,

Dustin

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I have just the CPNE to complete and I now I find that 4 local hospitals will not hire any EC graduates with their RN.They say they are ineexperienced and dont possess the needed clinical skills. Also the only site left in California was Long Beach and they wouldnt renew their contract with EC.(EC didnt notify any of the students in California) I feel EC was deceptive. Although I plan to finish I am disappointed in the EC program. I have met several Califorrnia EC students that have no nursing experience or knowledge but have passed the required exams.No wonder EC has gotten the bad rap they have.

Haste makes waste, don't rush into it. I'm down on Excelsior right now, though they have tightened up their standards a little (it used to be any Tom Dick and Harry could get in their program, then when states started questioning this and one state banned their graduates altogether, they tried to save face, but they were a day late and a dollar short, I'm afraid) it they still allow people in the program they should not.

I am majorly opposed to a new LPN going through Excelsior. No amount of bookwork and theory classes can account for actual work experience, and this program is meant for those with experience. After being an LPN for 4 yrs. and then going through EC's program I can understand how it fits into place.

Also, if an LPN's skill level and knowledge base was that of an RN's there would be no distinction. Of course, you have exceptions. The best nurse I have ever seen is an LPN, but she has been working in many areas of care from the ER to OB for 25 yrs. It's a shame she did not further her education because while she has so much knowledge and such skill she does not have the options she would have had as an RN.

Also, I used to hear LPN's say "that RN didn't even know how to put in a catheter." Well, I'm sorry, but replacing a catheter or NG or PEG tube might be a *skill* but it's not exactly high tech, and these things can be learned in about 30 minutes. RN's spend a great deal of time on knowledge. But I can also see the point of argument for those who believe that all RN's should be required to become LPN's first. Each discipline is skilled in its own right.

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I wouldn't make any blanket statement and say that any new LPN couldn't do it, but I don't think that I would have passed the CPNE at least during my first year or two as an LPN without some solid Med/Surg experience (which is the majority of the clinical exam.)

The reason that I say that is that there were several times during my exam that I had to make clinical judgements and decide to add, omit, or modify certain things that the examiner isn't going to prompt you to do.

You have to make these decisions on your own and that is a big part of the passing standard.

EC is very quick to point out that they are clinical examiners and not instructors.

As a fairly new LPN (and I speak only for myself and my limited abilities at the time, maybe other new LPN's had better clinical judgement than I did at that time) I would have probably just gone through all of the motions and did whatever skills I was asked to do on the kardex and care plan.

As the patient condition can change during the time that you've written your careplan and at the time that the examiner has selected areas of care for you to complete, some areas of care may need to be changed and/or modified and it is your job to know when, how, and why things need to be added, deleted, or modified.

This is what distinguishes a clinical exam from a clinical experience in a traditional program which is why many students can be brand new LPN's and just keep going through a traditional program and do fine but may not do so well in such an independent setting where an examiner is merely observing you and not really helping you to develop.

You come into the exam with the expectation that you've already developed new grad RN level judgement and competency.

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Specializes in Emergency, Family Practice, Occ. Health.

Are you aware that NC 2 can be waived if you completed an NLN accredited program w/ a B or higher average within the last 5 years?

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I have just the CPNE to complete and I now I find that 4 local hospitals will not hire any EC graduates with their RN.They say they are ineexperienced and dont possess the needed clinical skills. Also the only site left in California was Long Beach and they wouldnt renew their contract with EC.(EC didnt notify any of the students in California) I feel EC was deceptive. Although I plan to finish I am disappointed in the EC program. I have met several Califorrnia EC students that have no nursing experience or knowledge but have passed the required exams.No wonder EC has gotten the bad rap they have.

Where are these hospitals? Name them. Did you hear this from them, or from some of the "Califorrnia EC students that have no nursing experience or knowledge but have passed the required exams"? I have several offers from all over CA. As far as the Long Beach CPNE site being closed, how is that relevant? The majority of EC students will have to travel to their CPNE. I went all the way across the country for mine. EC has never once guaranteed a specific CPNE site to anyone, and they are certainly under no obligation to make a general announcement when they close or open one. When you are qualified to take the CPNE, they will find you a place.

I too have met inexperienced EC grads. I have also met traditional program grads who couldn't distinguish between an IM and Sub-Q injection (Hired right into the ER from a BSN program!). However, the vast majority of grads from both programs are functional AT THE NEW GRAD LEVEL.

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Specializes in Mental Health, MI/CD, Neurology.
I have just the CPNE to complete and I now I find that 4 local hospitals will not hire any EC graduates with their RN.They say they are ineexperienced and dont possess the needed clinical skills.

I'm curious as to where these hospitals are too.

I started the EC program with 1 1/2 years of LPN experience under my belt. Granted it was in a neuro clinic, but that experience really helped. I also feel that my years as a CNA way back in the day helped me a lot too (especially with the CPNE). I think some good med surg experience would be ideal for an LPN starting the program.

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