info on university of pheonix

tehsoon2brn · Apr 25, 2006

I heard that University of Phoenix online degrees were similar to "cracker box" degrees and that nobody respected nurses who had them...

llg, PhD, RN · Apr 25, 2006

The Univ. of Phoenix is not a standard university, but is a business -- run by The Apollo Group. The Apollo Group has been (still is?) under investigation for shady recruitment practices ... but I have not heard that the nursing programs have been involved.

As I have said in a similar thread, I have mixed feelings about the Univ. of P. I had a friend "go" there and I respect her. She seems to have gotten a good education. However, I have recently gotten a negative impression of the school as I precepted 2 of their students in their MSN program. While precepting their students, the school had no contact with me what-so-ever. For all they know, the students completely lied about the practicum experiences -- and may even have "made me up" as a preceptor. The school never confirmed that I even exist, much less that I was precepting their students or that the students actually did any work, met any objectives, etc.

The absence of ANY oversight on their part of their students' activities makes me question the integrity of their programs. It appears that as long as the students pay their money and at least pretend to do some work, they can get a degree. That worries me. I hope my 2 experiences as one of their preceptors were isolated incidents -- but twice?

llg

Drysolong · Apr 25, 2006

My experience with UOP was in another field (Computer Information Systems). I took a number of courses before deciding that CIS was not what I was really interested in doing. However, I liked the concept and the support I received from faculty and fellow students.

One of my LPN nursing instructors received her Masters from them and she was satisfied. I'm curious about the need of a preceptor for a master's program. At the master's degree level, are you still participating in clinicals?

Also, as for "cracker-box" degrees, so far UOP is only for ADN or BSN to get the next level degree. Does anyone else have more info on their reputation?

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 25, 2006

I heard that University of Phoenix online degrees were similar to "cracker box" degrees and that nobody respected nurses who had them...

I'm not sure what you mean by "cracker box" degree. It's a legitimate degree. The blanket statement that "nobody respected nurses who had them.........." is not true in my experience either. I know you're just repeating what you heard, so don't mean to discredit that, but that's too much of a sweeping negation for me to believe.

UoP is becoming widely known, especially in the business world where they've been granting MBAs for a long time. They tapped into a market: the working student and offered weekend and evening schools, and now online. While it may not be respected as much as Yale or Harvard, it's probably no more less respected that a school like I'm going to that no one has heard of. People tend to respect the degrees as much as they do the place. People will go "great you have a BSN!!! That fits our job description", rather than "oh, you have a crackerbox degree".

llg, PhD, RN · Apr 25, 2006

I'm curious about the need of a preceptor for a master's program. At the master's degree level, are you still participating in clinicals?

Most Master's level programs include practicums, though they vary in their exact nature. For example, in a program focusing on education, the student would have to do some actual supervised teaching ... or at least team with an experienced educator. For a program focusing on administration, the student would work on an administrative project. For a clinical focus, the student would be expected to interact with patients in an advanced capacity.

The practicum experiences are where the student gets some supervised practice in the type of advanced role they are preparing for. It's one thing to read about being in a leadership role or advanced practice role: it's another thing to actually get some supervised experience with it.

My recent problems with the U of P is that they have no way of verifying that the student is actually doing the work they claim to do in the practicum. The course requirements seem reasonable and appropriate, but the school just takes the student's word for it that they actually did the work with a qualified preceptor. The school does gives no guidance to the preceptor or does not checking up with the preceptor to be sure that the student is actually getting any experience. The student could make the whole thing up! That worries me.

llg

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 26, 2006

That is a concern llg. My "preceptor" who is going to check me off on my assessments this coming semester has been contacted by the school, and I had to submit her resume before she was approved. It only makes sense to have checks and balances. There are shady dishonest people out there who want a free ride.

llg, PhD, RN · Apr 26, 2006

That is a concern llg. My "preceptor" who is going to check me off on my assessments this coming semester has been contacted by the school, and I had to submit her resume before she was approved. It only makes sense to have checks and balances. There are shady dishonest people out there who want a free ride.

Thanks for understanding my concern, Tweety. I had always thought that U of P was a "good school" and even recommended it to a few people. Now I am not so sure.

One thing though ... You're getting your BSN there, right? Maybe they are more careful with the BSN students. The students I have been precepting are in the MSN program. Not that it SHOULD make any difference: MSN students need to be supervised, too ... but maybe there is a "looser" culture within the graduate program, less scutiny. I think that would be wrong, but that might be the explanation.

llg

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 27, 2006

No, llg, I'm not going to school there. I'm at another all alone RN to BSN program at Florida Hospital College of Health Sciences. I considered UoP but their high cost was a turn off.

I agree, there must be some accountability. Even in my teaching session this semester I had to supply photo documentation.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Apr 27, 2006

I just completed my MSN, 01/2006, I had to submit my preceptor resume also but she wasn't contacted. But what I was graded on was my project, which had to be carefully documented along the way by my professor.

I am also a member of Honor Society of Nursing, Sigma Theta Tau which I was asked to join as a student at University of Phoenix.

I could have had an imposter do my whole program, if I wanted, the point was I wanted to learn. I was impressed with the quality of Facility, all nursing courses where taught by a PHd. The students where from around the world which was a great experience for me.

Alex

llg, PhD, RN · Apr 27, 2006

I just completed my MSN, 01/2006, I had to submit my preceptor resume also but she wasn't contacted. But what I was graded on was my project, which had to be carefully documented along the way by my professor.
I am also a member of Honor Society of Nursing, Sigma Theta Tau which I was asked to join as a student at University of Phoenix.
I could have had an imposter do my whole program, if I wanted, the point was I wanted to learn. I was impressed with the quality of Facility, all nursing courses where taught by a PHd. The students where from around the world which was a great experience for me.
Alex

That's my whole point. You could have had an imposter do your whole program and/or lied about the work that you said you did. The one student I precepted did a lot of good work and submitted a project that the 2 of us worked on together. I KNOW that she deserves an A because I know the work she did -- but the school does NOT know that. The work she submitted could be 100% falisified and they would never know it.

The other student I preceptored did not do such a good job -- and as recently moved out of the area. I have no idea what work she is submitting to be graded and the school is not verifying her work with me in any way. she could be totally falsifying everything. That's not the mark of a quality program. And because they never contacted me or anything, I don't even know who to call or write about my concerns!

Now ... you sound like good person who probably made a good, honest effort at getting a good education -- just like my friend did and one of my 2 students. But how many degrees are they handing out to people who did NOT make a good honest effort and who did NOT get a good education? Even they don't know that. The more I think about it, the more it concerns me.

llg

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Apr 27, 2006

If I went to a brick and mortar college, I could send an imposter to take my exam. My online facilator worked hard with me during the practicum. It would have been very hard to fabricate the required work. I can't tell you how many times I had to redo certain parts. In fact I think it would have been harder to make it up. I did share the feedback I continually recieved with my preceptor, so she was in the loop. No matter what the system is everyone could scam it, I went to learn more about nursing practice and I feel I achieved this.

The process for the practicum before it gets to the mentoring part is intense.

You have to write a proposal, you have to research the objectives, you have to keep a journal. I can see if you were unfamilar with a person where you would be concerned, but like anything what you put into the process the more meaningful the experience is.

Alex