info on university of pheonix

llg, PhD, RN · Apr 27, 2006

If I went to a brick and mortar college, I could send an imposter to take my exam. ...... Alex

That's true. But with a brick and mortar college, it would be harder to send an imposter to every class, take every exam, participate in every discussion, make every class presentation, etc. While I am sure such things happen ocassionally, the fact that students have to attend multiple classes, have face-to-face discussions, etc. makes such cheating more difficult. Papers can be written by someone else, but most programs have enough "face time" during which the faculty can ascertain that the student really has done at least some of the work themselves.

More importantly, most good academic programs -- be they B & M or be they online -- have some contact between the preceptors and the faculty. This sometimes comes in the form of site visits, but can also be done via phone calls, e-mails, etc. Preceptors are often asked to fill out an evaluation of the student's performance or at least verify that the student completed the activities as reported.

As I said in my previous post, Alex, you sound like a good person who worked hard and got a good education. I hope you don't think I doubt that. I can say the same thing about my friend and my one student. It's just that they have no system in place that give the preceptors any contact with the faculty -- and that's just plain wrong.

llg

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 30, 2006

. It's just that they have no system in place that give the preceptors any contact with the faculty -- and that's just plain wrong.
llg

I definately agree. In my "concepts" class when we gave a power point presentation we had to have two people mail or fax in an eval. During my teaching project we had to send in four photos of the class. In assessment the preceptor has to send in an eval. During leadership practicum, same thing, the "leader" has to send in an eval. Not having an instructor present for these things require validation. Even traditional classrooms have their preceptors fill out an evaluation. I've filled out many for the students passing my way.

There needs to be some sort of validation. As a student it would bother me if there wasn't. As a preceptor it would too.

I think your concerns are valid, and you are in no way implying that people don't do hard quality work at UoP.

Trauma Columnist · Apr 30, 2006

I did both my BSN and MSN (concentration management and leadership) at UofP. I worked very hard to ensure I got the education I wanted. Yes, I supose I could have cheated, but integrity is what higher education is all about. I am currently completing a post-MSN clinical nurse specialist and yes, I could have cheated on my practicum hours (576 hours). However, I didn't. Cheating can occur just as easily in a brick and mortar school as an online school. In the end, it falls back to the integrity of the individual. I have not had anyone suggest that I have a less than honorable degree from UofP. I worked very hard to obtain the degrees I received and nothing was given to me, believe me.

llg, PhD, RN · Apr 30, 2006

I worked very hard to obtain the degrees I received and nothing was given to me, believe me.

I am sure you did work very hard ... learned a lot ... and I am not doubting your integrity. I believe you DID earn your degree, just as some other people I know have.

However, it's still wrong that the school does not have any system in place to check to see if you actiually did the practicum activities that you say you did. Without having any contact between the faculty and the preceptors, the school is making a big mistake -- one that compromises their reputation if nothing else. It would be very easy for them to ask the preceptors to verify the student's clinical activities and give a little input into the student's evaluation. The fact that they don't bother to do so is a significant weakness in their system that they should address.

llg

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Apr 30, 2006

Forgive me, I had had forgotten to tell you, besides sending in my preceptor's resume, she did complete a form as requested by UoP.

UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX

MASTER OF SCIENCE IN NURSING PROGRAM

Mentor Agreement

The purpose of this Agreement is to obtain the mutual cooperation of (mentor name): _____________________________and the University of Phoenix in the provision of nursing experiences for graduate students enrolled in the Master of Science in Nursing program at the University of Phoenix.

1. The Mentor agrees to:

a. Participate in an introductory meeting to establish a mutual plan of activity which enables the student to meet the learning objectives.

b. Develop a plan of action with the student to meet individual objectives within the realities of the practice setting.

c. Plan with the student for experiences which provide for a progression from participant observation (if required) toward responsible professional practice.

d. Assist the student in selecting experiences that facilitate learning.

e. Participate in an exit meeting with the student to review the attainment of learning objectives.

f. Participate in the evaluation of the student's performance.

2. University of Phoenix, through its Master of Science in Nursing program, agrees to:

a. Ensure that all MSN students hold appropriate Liability Insurance and licensure to cover their nursing activities.

b. Provide the mentor with course and individual learning objectives prior to the experience.

c. Maintain a contract with the agency for the provision of nursing experiences.

d. Obtain approval for a mentor to work with the student while assigned to the agency.

e. Collaborate with the mentor to ensure student progression toward achievement of learning objectives.

3. The Master of Science in Nursing student agrees to:

a. Arrange an introductory meeting with the mentor to review the learning objectives.

b. Provide a copy of the individual learning objectives at the introductory meeting.

c. Arrange appropriate learning experiences (with the mentor).

d. Be responsible for the learning experiences.

e. Be accountable for their nursing actions while in the agency.

f. Respect the confidentiality of all information with regard to client and agency records.

g. Arrange an exit meeting to review attainment of learning objectives.

The following signatures acknowledge this agreement and the content within.

Mentor

Date

Agency

Student

Date

Campus

Faculty

Date

And

UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX

MASTER OF SCIENCE IN NURSING PROGRAM

Mentor Evaluation of Graduate Student's

Practicum Experience

Please evaluate the performance of the graduate student in your institution. Consider the overall experience as well as single activities during the practicum. (Please type or print.)

Student

Student Group

Agency

Faculty

Duration of Practicum

From

To

Mentor Name:

Position at Agency:

Number of contact hours spent with the student during the practicum

1. Provide a brief description of the student's activities and experiences.

2. Did the student achieve the learning objectives? Please explain.

3. Assess the student's ability to use self-directed behaviors to seek learning experiences related to the learning contract.

4. Assess the student's reliability in meeting obligations to clients, staff, and/or the agency.

5. Assess the student's ability to use appropriate interpersonal skills to establish a working relationship with the mentor or other staff at the agency.

6. Assess the student's ability to evaluate his/her self and incorporate feedback. Provide an example if possible.

7. Describe, based on your interactions with the student, areas of strengths and areas needing development.

8. Provide any suggestions or recommendations which may assist the University in providing practice-based experiences for graduate students.

Mentor's signature

Date

Both has to be completed prior to my graduation

Trauma Columnist · Apr 30, 2006

Hmmm - I don't remember that form Alek but I do know I had to have some type of verification because I remember printing the form of and then having my preceptor sign it. I will say though that since I did a non-clinical MSN, my clinical hours were small - 110 hours if I remember correctly.

In the clinical nurse specialist course that I'm now finishing - I did 576 hours. However, the school had a problem a couple of years ago with nurses counting work hours as clinical hours - so it is possible to cheat at any school.

Again, it goes back to the integrity of the student. Folks who cheat in school, probably cheat in other aspects of their life too.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Apr 30, 2006

How are you finding the CNS program, I am thinking of doing a NP certificate? Some of it is online and it is offered at State University, it is not much cheaper than UoP. WHat I loved is the flexability to start or stop a course which I don't think is available in most programs.

Trauma Columnist · Apr 30, 2006

I did a post-MSN CNS in adult health because that was what was offered at my hospital's college of nursing. I had to do the following classes:

Advanced nursing of the chronic pt

Advanced nursing of the acute pt

Advanced nursing of the geriatric pt

576 hours of clinical.

I did it in two semesters - I was very very lucky to have saved a lot of PTO and so was still able to work full-time. These classes were a combo of in-school classes (four times a semester) and then online discussions plus presentations.

I found it very interesting and know that for me, this clinical was a good idea. I don't think that I would have been too happy with just the management degree. Although its funny, because I just applied for a management (not APN) position.

llg, PhD, RN · Apr 30, 2006

Forgive me, I had had forgotten to tell you, besides sending in my preceptor's resume, she did complete a form as requested by UoP.
NT]

Thanks for sharing that, Alexk49. That's the type of thing I was expecting to receive. I guess their administration intends to interact with the preceptors, but that there is some inconsistency in the implementation of it. Either that, or there may just be some delay in my 2 individual cases.

llg