Excelsior Pass Rate?

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Does anyone know Excelsior's passing rate? Just curious. tia

Kelly

Lizz, do you have any personal experience with EC, or have you actually known anyone who was an EC student or grad?

Success at EC depends upon performance, only. The fact that they are narrowing the field from which applicants are accepted only speaks to the smaller group of students, and probably satisfying criteria designed for trad schools. After all, who (except California) writes regs for one school at a time?

If you can pass the EC exams, and if you can pass the CPNE, and you can pass the NCLEX, you have proved yourself beyond what is expected of the students of any other school, anywhere.

And while we are considering "pass rates," shall we also consider how many students who are working through EC are actually in foreign countries? Many of whom speak a first language which is not English?

Just keeping the pot going with fact based statements and thoughts.....

BTW, lizz, you still haven't said what you are or used to be, and what it is you are a student of now. Is any of it nursing? Like I said, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter what. It just seems like you would have this info in your profile, if any of it was nursing.... Just curious. :)

I also have grown rather fond of Lizz--kind of like some songs I hear on the radio that I totally hate and then catch myself singing or humming them frequently....definately a grow on ya type love:) (but never-the-less Lizz you add spice to the topic...)

BTW Kim, it's not that I think conventional schools are all that great. They're not. Traditional schools churn out their fair share of problem grads. I just happen to think the risks are greater with the way the EC program is set up, along the lines of the EMT examples that Spazzy cited.

:p

If ever in your life you end up working in a teaching hospital, I believe that you will change your mind. I work everyday with ADN and BSN students, they get PLENTY of chances to screw up and re-do whatever they messed up. They still graduate. With Excelsior....you screw up, you are done!! Come back next time and take the whole exam again.

However, I did enjoy your perspective on tuition with CA schools, etc. Gave me something to think about.

But let me ask you, if I missed your other posts, why do YOU think CA made that decision?

The CA board of nursing website clearly states that it had nothing to do with poor performance from Excelsior students practicing as RN's and yet I read everyday from people who are convinced that Excelsior grads are unsafe and "wouldn't want an Excelsior grad taking care of me in the hospital."

I'm not quoting you personally, I'm genuinely asking why you think that the decision was made by the CA BRN?

I'm looking for other perspectives because the arguement that more clinical time in school makes you a better nurse....that doesn't cut it for me.

I will take an experienced LPN/LVN over the new grad RN BSN from some prestigious school any day if I were sick in the hospital.

But maybe that's because I'm in the business. The general public can get very hung up on titles and credentials and very easily find comfort and take for granted that the person with more credentials has to be the better person to take care of them.

I'm glad that I have more insight than the general public when it comes to competent nursing care.

Specializes in Psychiatry.

I will take an experienced LPN/LVN over the new grad RN BSN from some prestigious school any day if I were sick in the hospital.

But maybe that's because I'm in the business. The general public can get very hung up on titles and credentials and very easily find comfort and take for granted that the person with more credentials has to be the better person to take care of them.>>

So true. I would also take the experienced LPN.

During my ICU clinical rotation, a physician recommended a book for me to read. Entitled, "Complications, A Surgeon's Notes on an Imperfect Science" by Atul Gawande. It's worth reading for those starting out in the medical field.

Kelly

If you can pass the EC exams, and if you can pass the CPNE, and you can pass the NCLEX, you have proved yourself beyond what is expected of the students of any other school, anywhere.

Uh ... not necessarily. Perhaps it would be useful to see what the board had to say about that.

For example, let's talk about LVN's, since they obviously have a lot of experience. That's why California has challenge exams which essentially allow them to skip about a year in my ADN program if they pass (although the challenge exams are very tough and 50 percent of LVN's don't pass at my school).

Nevertheless, assuming that they do pass, LVN's still have to go through at least one more year of school, because California law requires them to complete clinical rotations in advanced med-surg, psych and geriatrics. This is the law, and these required courses are not taught in California LVN programs.

Excelsior proposed the CPNE as a substitute for this but, as the board stated, "CPNE does not test in all of the required areas, and it cannot be substituted as challenging in all areas and meeting the required areas of clinical practice. Clinical courses cannot be challenged when students have not had the content."

The CPNE doesn't test for everything the state requires, even for LVN's. And, even if they did, they wouldn't be able to document the large number of supervised clinical hours that the law also requires.

Anyway, here's the reference if you'd like to take a look. The most relevant info starts on p. 13.

http://www.rn.ca.gov/pdf/brdmins%2012-03.pdf

:coollook:

I'm genuinely asking why you think that the decision was made by the CA BRN?

Why? I'll give you an honest opinion, and it's not just about the clinicals. It happened mostly because of the things that Spazzy described ... EMT's, MA's or whoever were taking a quick course and grabbing a license to qualify for the EC program without much experience. Some of these people were getting through the program and becoming RN's.

They did cause some major problems, and Kaiser and the California Nurses Association (among others) complained. These are pretty big organizations, so the state had to pay attention.

But this is where I think EC students tend to misunderstand the problem that the state was facing. Once they had to investigate, and found that the EC program would never comply with California law, they really didn't have much of a choice. You can't tell all the other schools they have to follow the law and then, make an exception for just one school.

And, it certainly didn't help that EC wasn't making much of an effort to comply with the state's rules although, in all honesty, they probably couldn't because it would cost them a fortune.

I do think that if the state had a problem with EC, they should have addressed it much sooner. But, government agencies tend to act slowly and, I suspect in this case, they really didn't even consider it until Kaiser and CNA got involved. But, once the complaints were on the table, they had to follow the law.

Now if EC had tightened up a bit, and prevented some of these problem cases which prompted the subsequent complaints, maybe this never would have happened. But they didn't and, once the industry heavyweights made it an issue, there was no way the state could justify keeping the program under the law. There were simply too many areas where the EC program didn't comply.

That's the real reason I think it happened.

:coollook:

... EMT's, MA's or whoever were taking a quick course and grabbing a license to qualify for the EC program without much experience. Some of these people were getting through the program and becoming RN's.

They did cause some major problems, and Kaiser and the California Nurses Association (among others) complained. These are pretty big organizations, so the state had to pay attention.

Not to mention there were a few businesses who ran "Become an RN!" ads that were basically combining substandard EMT instruction (to satisfy EC's admissions requirement) with tutoring for the nursing concepts exams.

DJ

Specializes in Mental Health, MI/CD, Neurology.
Not to mention there were a few businesses who ran "Become an RN!" ads that were basically combining substandard EMT instruction (to satisfy EC's admissions requirement) with tutoring for the nursing concepts exams.

Can you explain that one further DJ? I don't understand this.

Thanks---

Specializes in Mental Health, MI/CD, Neurology.

Originally Posted by chris_at_lucas

If you can pass the EC exams, and if you can pass the CPNE, and you can pass the NCLEX, you have proved yourself beyond what is expected of the students of any other school, anywhere.

Uh ... not necessarily.

Lizz, you really can't say that. You have never taken one of the EC exams, and you have never gone through even the mere anticipation of the CPNE, much less the actual CPNE weekend. Throughout this program we learn more than we ever imagined we would, and somehow our brains magically morph from an LPN brain to an RN brain. Our way of thinking changes completely and we look at things differently than we did before. It was pretty amazing when I realized that it had happened.

Please quit knocking EC. You have no clue whatsoever.

Can you explain that one further DJ? I don't understand this.

Thanks---

http://web.archive.org/web/20021207120815/www.westmedtraining.com/RN.htm

Prerequisites to this program include being or becoming an eligible health care worker: LVN (licensed vocational nurse), Medical Assistants (certified with the American Association of Medical Assistants), EMT (emergency medical technician), psychiatric technician, paramedic, RT (respiratory therapist), PT (physical therapist), accredited surgical technician, RN or doctor from another country, or chiropractor. WestMed helps you satisfy this prerequisite by providing EMT training. If you are currently an RT, PT, LVN, EMT, accredited surgical technician, paramedic, or nurse or doctor from another country and can provide proof, you do not need to become an EMT.

DJ

Please quit knocking EC. You have no clue whatsoever.

This is why I cited the board document and posted it so you could read it yourself. If you believe the board has no clue, ok. But they're saying the CPNE doesn't test for everything that RN's are supposed to know, under California law. Maybe it's different in other states but, apparently, not here.

This isn't a personal opinion. It's all there in the document.

:coollook:

lizz wrote: Uh ... not necessarily. Perhaps it would be useful to see what the board had to say about that.

Who are you??? You never say what your background is, you never answer direct questions, but you ping everybody else's experience with your opinion. BTW, I have served on many boards, and recorded the minutes of meetings of even more, and I can tell you from experience, the Board's accuracy is limited by the abilities (and personal agendas) of its members. So much for your "what the Board has to say."

the CPNE doesn't test for everything that RN's are supposed to know, under California law.

The NCLEX doesn't test every applicant for everything RN's are supposed to know either. Is California planning on getting rid of the NCLEX too?

I stand by my statement that EC grads prove themselves competent beyond what students of other schools do. NO other school has a do-or-die clinical final exam.

lizz, people are trying to be courteous to you, and we usually ignore your less-than-gracious posts, but you never seem to quite "get" that. It seems you have to be right about everything, to have the last word. If a post successfully contradicts you, you just ignore that.

I never see you post on clinical threads. I have seen a couple of posts from you about classmates, but it's been a while. I'll ask you again--who and what are you? Are you or have you ever been a nurse? A nursing student? What career are you changing to? From what?

Anybody with a computer and an IP connection can google and post something they found--what's your background lizz, please "bore [us] with [your] resume."

I think you just like to see yourself post, frankly. And you do seem most pleased with yourself when you can run down Excelsior College, especially if you can annoy other posters. Putting smilies on everything doesn't make your post a constructive one. Whatever your issue with our school is, it would be nice if you took care of it somewhere other than under the noses and in the faces of current students, prospective hopefuls and Excelsior College grads.

If there is actually a nursing shortage, it would seem that Excelsior College has the right idea for how to get nurses educated, tested and out there, making use of current technology, and people's experience, knowledge and innate intelligence. They can put out nurses in very large numbers. What's your school doing, about 50 or 100 students? We have 17,000 currently enrolled. Even if only 50% ever finish, that's 8,500 new nurses. Think that might help the nursing shortage, lizz????

And as for constantly trotting out how it is done in California, frankly, I've been there, my family lives there, I see the news about California, and that huge expensive bureaucracy, and all of that is one small but very good reason why I don't live there.

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