Acceptance of Distance/Online Degrees by Other Colleges and Universities - page 5

I have taken online classes through California State University, Dominguez Hills working on my BSN (I am a diploma RN). I agree with others who have commented the coursework is not easy and I too... Read More

  1. by   bhamlpn
    I'm really interested in this entire discussion, since I am contemplating starting an online/self-study program(lpn-asn or bsn). I can definitely add one point since I have been researching this recently, and that is the program in particular that I've been looking into requires that you go to a learning center (such as Sylvan) to take a test. That would make cheating for a test just as difficult, or if not more difficult at a center such as this. Although, they are costly(approx. 150-200$ per test; one for each class you take). Supposedly, this is an accredited program, although if you see my thread(Legit online/self-study lpn-asn or bsn programs) it goes into more detail on this particular program and I had requested any further info anyone may have.

    Along with your well thought-out response, I completely agree that whether it be online taught or class-instructed, if you make the grade and pass nclex, the achievement is great equivalently. Props to you(opalm,etc.etc.)!! :hatparty:

    Bhamlpn
    Last edit by bhamlpn on Feb 1, '05
  2. by   LTNurse
    Quote from mona b
    Well then there you have it. You want to defend something you don't want to investigate. Hmmm...you have an awful lot to say about us picking on poe me but now you don't want to debate. That's very interesting.

    Your going to investigate the testing procedures, that's funny I happen to know that a local program around here also has much of the course content online. Quizzes, tests, can sometimes be done online also. So many programs now are hybrid's that it is getting hard to differentiate between what is an online program and what is not.







    Good Luck
    I went for two years to a on Campus BSN program in Hawaii but due to my husbands job we relocated and I got in to DCN's program. In my original program there were quite a few classes that were completely online including exams and many of my class instructors allowed us to bring book or notes to an exam. I don't know if you agree with me but nursing is allot about critical thinking and you may have the concepts in front of you as you do in a hospital but if you can't put it into practice you won't be able to answer the question. This is my third semester with DCN and I'm still waiting for the day when I can get by to take an exam without studying or just looking into books because it's very, very difficult to answer about 75 question out of 4, 5 chapters in about an hour without studying even if the book is there right in front of you. Also with DCN at the end of each semester while you are in St. Louis for your clinical validations you take the NLN exam correspondent to the class you just took to see how you are doing and in what do you need to work on; for example if you took OB, you'll take the OB NLN at the campus with your instructor in the classroom and if you don't know your stuff you'll fail that for sure. I'm very happy with DCN and I was very happy as well with my Campus program at HPU in Hawaii, they both have good and negative points about it. I'm loving my clinical experiences, it's wonderful to put into practice what I'm learning in my classes and I wish I could be in that hospital everyday. I'm so happy that online education exists, and although DCN isn't 100% online since you have to go to Campus every semester at the end to be at the hospital with your instructors for clinical validations for 5 days I'm glad that I found it because being where I am (I'm in Germany) I would have had to wait until my husband's assignment ended in three years before I could go back to Nursing School and since I'm not getting any younger time is essential :-)

    LTNurse
  3. by   poe me
    Hello everyone its been a looooooong time since I've been to the site. Im still in nursing school and its really taking alot of my time as I'm sure u all are aware of. But anyways I'm still against the online LPN-RN program. As I have said many times and will continue to say these type of programs should be of concern to the community. I'm sorry if i offended anyone with my comments regarding these types of programs, and I will stand behind them. A lot of you have said in some of your posts that you dont have the time to go on campus for your nursing education because of work and family. I understand that totally and I know its hard going to nursing school when you have a family and work. I work and i have 2 children. I only go to school 3 days a week for this semester. We have clinical rotation 7 days a week at the nursing school i attend. This makes it easy for those who have family to get their clinical time in. One girl I know does her clinicals on Sat & Sun. I have a lecture class thats in the evening. Nursing schools now are soooo flexible just look into it. They've opened up another clinical and lecture section at my school, and i'm so glad they did. You dont have to go to school 5 days a week not anymore its changed so much. I just wanna see all of us succeed in nursing. My concern is for the patients as well as you all. Just look into it before you decide to go online. I'm all for distance learning even with the BSN online. But not this its too dangerous you will not be prepared as well as you should be. Look at Deaconess College pass rate for 2004 for the online its horrible and only 3 people took the test.
  4. by   tlynsmith
    Well I live in CA , the schools out here are not that accommodating. Most schools that offer evening classes are private, well if you have kids and a fulltime job you can not afford loans,etc. I think its fair to say most people do search for these schools, but when unsuccessful they have other options. I have been a LVN x 8 years, make very good money, so I can not afford to give up my fulltime job. I have worked many places so I think I am qualified to say that most RN's I have spoken to admit they did not recieve the proper training, thats why alot hospitals offer New Grade Programs. How can a teacher teach all her/his students. Its usually the student that finds a nice nurse at the hospital to allow the student to get hands on experience. Traditional schools also have low passing rates. I am enrolled at Excelsior their passing rate is as high as CA traditional schools if not higher. So what does that say. No one is seating with the Distance Learning student to take the Boards. I am pretty sure the same NCLEX book(s) is used by students from both learning institutions. I wish you much success with your choice of your nursing school. Maybe later your views will change, because I have a feeling Distance Learning will be more accepting with the 800,000 more nurses needed by 2010.
  5. by   Sheri257
    Quote from LTNurse
    many of my class instructors allowed us to bring book or notes to an exam.

    it's very, very difficult to answer about 75 question out of 4, 5 chapters in about an hour without studying even if the book is there right in front of you.
    Whoah! Unbelieveable!

    Yep ... I bet those exams are really tough, even when you're allowed to cheat.



    At my school, people have been thrown out for bringing books and notes to an exam. They got automatic F's in the course because it's considered cheating.

    Cheating ... is cheating. There is no excuse for it. And any program that allows it, online or offline, can't be much of a program to begin with.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 5, '05
  6. by   Sheri257
    Quote from mztrixi
    I have worked many places so I think I am qualified to say that most RN's I have spoken to admit they did not recieve the proper training, thats why alot hospitals offer New Grade Programs. How can a teacher teach all her/his students. Its usually the student that finds a nice nurse at the hospital to allow the student to get hands on experience. Traditional schools also have low passing rates. I am enrolled at Excelsior their passing rate is as high as CA traditional schools if not higher. So what does that say.
    I love it when distance learning students say traditional students don't have enough training. What a crock. Tell that to all the recruiters who travel from all over the state and are beating down our doors begging us to come work for them.

    Yep ... those hospitals must be idiots for spending a ton of money traveling and trying to hire us traditional students who don't know anything and would cost them a fortune in training.

    Most new grad programs are six weeks, tops, often a lot less than that. If, by chance, you don't know anything at that point, I don't know how you're going to make it through a new grad program, which is really just an orientation program.

    As for the pass rates: if you're referring to NCLEX, California programs basically have the same rate as the rest of the country ... 85 percent. If the school doesn't maintain a decent pass rate for two years, California yanks their accreditation.

    So, there are very few schools with a "low" pass rates because they don't last very long. Check the BORN website. All the pass rates are published here.

    To my knowledge EC's pass rates have never been formally published but, they've been quoted as saying their pass rate is about 85 percent. No big difference there.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 5, '05
  7. by   mona b RN
    Quote from lizz
    Whoah! Unbelieveable!

    Yep ... I bet those exams are really tough, even when you're allowed to cheat.



    At my school, people have been thrown out for bringing books and notes to an exam. They got automatic F's in the course because it's considered cheating.

    Cheating ... is cheating. There is no excuse for it. And any program that allows it, online or offline, can't be much of a program to begin with.

    Lizz...did you bother to read her post? She said the insructors allowed the students to use resources during the quiz.
  8. by   Sheri257
    Quote from mona b
    Lizz...did you bother to read her post? She said the insructors allowed the students to use resources during the quiz.
    Yeah, I read it. And I strongly disagree with it. Just because an instructor allows you to refer to notes during a quiz/exam, doesn't make it right. I still think it's cheating.

    If the instructors allowed students to use books and notes at my school, the instructors would be thrown out of school along with the students.

    What's the point of being tested on the material if you're allowed to refer to the material?

    That's just cheating in a different form. I don't care how much you have to study beforehand ... oh gee, you don't have time to look up all the answers so you have to study and know some of the material beforehand.

    That's ridiculous. I can't believe that any legitimate nursing program, online or offline, would allow this. Even if it's "allowed" it shouldn't be. It's outrageous.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 5, '05
  9. by   mona b RN
    Quote from lizz
    Yeah, I read it. And I strongly disagree with it. Just because an instructor allows you to refer to notes during a quiz/exam, doesn't make it right. I still think it's cheating.

    If the instructors allowed students to use books and notes at my school, the instructors would be thrown out of school along with the students.

    What's the point of being tested on the material if you're allowed to refer to the material?

    That's just cheating in a different form. I don't care how much you have to study beforehand ... oh gee, you don't have time to look up all the answers so you have to study and know some of the material beforehand.

    That's ridiculous. I can't believe that any legitimate nursing program, online or offline, would allow this. Even if it's "allowed" it shouldn't be. It's outrageous.

    Interesting viewpoint.
  10. by   mona b RN
    Quote from mona b
    Interesting viewpoint.
    Hmmmm...rote memorization or critical thinking? Which skill would I rather develop? My vote is for critical thinking.
  11. by   RN34TX
    Quote from mztrixi
    Well I live in CA , the schools out here are not that accommodating. Most schools that offer evening classes are private, well if you have kids and a fulltime job you can not afford loans,etc. I think its fair to say most people do search for these schools, but when unsuccessful they have other options. I have been a LVN x 8 years, make very good money, so I can not afford to give up my fulltime job. I have worked many places so I think I am qualified to say that most RN's I have spoken to admit they did not recieve the proper training, thats why alot hospitals offer New Grade Programs. How can a teacher teach all her/his students. Its usually the student that finds a nice nurse at the hospital to allow the student to get hands on experience. Traditional schools also have low passing rates. I am enrolled at Excelsior their passing rate is as high as CA traditional schools if not higher. So what does that say. No one is seating with the Distance Learning student to take the Boards. I am pretty sure the same NCLEX book(s) is used by students from both learning institutions. I wish you much success with your choice of your nursing school. Maybe later your views will change, because I have a feeling Distance Learning will be more accepting with the 800,000 more nurses needed by 2010.
    In all fairness to Lizz (and this is killing me) you will always hear many nurses from public community college LVN and ADN to prestigious private university BSN programs tell you that they felt unprepared for their new role upon graduation.
    I went through a "traditional" LVN program and felt unprepared and very scared as a new LVN. My first job was a step-down unit and I received an 8 week orientation and needed every bit of it.
    My first RN job was in ICU and the standard here is 12 weeks for new grads, they pulled me out of orientation in 8 weeks only because of my prior experience I needed to learn more of the specific ICU things like A-lines, swans, etc. Even then I practically begged for the entire 12 weeks because I felt unprepared to be an ICU nurse with my own patients without someone watching over me.
    As an LVN x8 years, can you think back to your very first LVN job out of school? Did you truely feel prepared and ready to go? If so, good for you but I doubt it.
    The bottom line is this: Whatever program you go through, there is not enough time to give you the depth of training needed for the given specialties. They are busy putting you through your Med/Surg, OB, peds, etc. clinicals and giving you the basics. It would take forever to make every new nurse trained to do dialysis, ER, OR, ICU, etc. and THAT is what new grad orientation is for. It is not because the programs are substandard.
    Believe me, NO ONE is coming out of RN school trained and ready to work in the areas I've listed above without a long and proper orientation.
    Re- board pass rates, EC's currently published rate is 90% for first time test takers which is in line with most schools around the country.
    Schools with poor pass rates get inspected by NLN and often the state and can and have been shut down here in TX. Even if they were allowed to operate, the schools will lose accreditation if they don't maintain an acceptable pass rate.
    Last edit by RN34TX on Feb 5, '05
  12. by   RN34TX
    Quote from lizz
    Most new grad programs are six weeks, tops, often a lot less than that. If, by chance, you don't know anything at that point, I don't know how you're going to make it through a new grad program, which is really just an orientation program.
    Is this the info you've been getting at job fairs in CA? I'm curious because to me that seems like a very short orientation for a new grad unless you were doing LTC or something like it.
    What types of units were they referring to? Would the orientation be longer if you were to accept a position in ICU, OR, ER, etc.?
    Would this orientation be for new grads with no prior nursing experience at all?
    Our new grads get 12 weeks and includes some classroom time but some of them that we have now are getting 16 weeks because they are just not ready to be on their own.
    I'm also asking you these questions because I hope that you are asking the recruiters these questions as well. New grads can get burned very easily because some of them just don't know what to ask or expect from their new employer and take whatever is thrown at them.
    You want solid, proper preceptorship as a new RN, take nothing less.
  13. by   Sheri257
    Quote from mona b
    Hmmmm...rote memorization or critical thinking? Which skill would I rather develop? My vote is for critical thinking.
    All of the questions in our nursing tests involve critical thinking. There's no rote memorization.

    However, if you don't know the material, there's no way you can accurately answer a critical thinking question, at least with the way our tests are structured.

    You have to both know the material and critically think. Without books or notes, of course.


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