Acceptance of Distance/Online Degrees by Other Colleges and Universities

Nursing Students Online Learning

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I have taken online classes through California State University, Dominguez Hills working on my BSN (I am a diploma RN). I agree with others who have commented the coursework is not easy and I too have written many papers which are required for these online courses. I mention this because when I recieve an "A" or "B" from an online course, I feel I have earned it and that I am taking and passing courses at a collegiate level. It has come to my attention that some colleges and universities frown upon a degree earned via distance or online learning. I guess I do not understand? If I am attending a college or university "online" or via "distance learning" and it is an accredited university or college, doesn't the accreditation and my course grades speak for themselves? I am posting this thread because after I achieve my BSN, I do plan to apply to a MSN program. While I realize MSN programs are also available online and through distance education, I would hope that my earned BSN from an accredited college or university would not be challenaged or become a hindrance because I earned it "Online" or by "Distance Learning". I would be interested in hearing from others who have obtained their degrees online or through distance learning and who have gone on to obtain MSN or higher degrees at other Universities or Colleges.

Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

I can only speak for the University of Phoenix online program. I've been in the ADN to BSN since Nov 02 and will be finished with the BSN in May 04. There are no tests in these classes at all, so cheating isn't an issue. There is another thread floating around too about the validity of online education. Personally, I did the LPN to ADN to BSN and (hopefully) onto the MSN. Because hubby was in the Air Force for many years, I've done traditional classes, video tape classes (yikes - that was a long time ago), and now online education. I've taken classes at a total of 9 universities in four countries and many states. Anyone that wants to cheat certainly can. However, I guess you need to figure ethics into this somewhere too. As to the OP - I have been very happy with UofP - it is fully accredited, its instructors are clinically current and all have at least a masters degree, with several having their doctorate. IMHO its well worth the money. Good luck...

Most students that have actually taken online courses (and most professors that have taught online courses) will agree that courses require more time and effort than traditional lecture classes. Also research has shown that the lecture methods is a poor method for learning.

Cheating and plagiarism are rampant on most college campuses as well as online programs.

You definitely make some excellent points Ken. But I'd also like to point out a few things.

When you talk about huge class size, I have to agree. But what you're talking about is not the norm, at least with the nursing programs I'm familiar with in California. Both the BSN and ADN programs graduate about 60 students each year. That means they take a new class of about 30, maybe 40 students each semester. That's pretty typical of the five nursing programs in my area. The only exception is one CC which takes about 50 students per semester and graduates 100 students a year.

Why are the class sizes so small? Even in the BSN program? Because the hospitals can only take that many students for clinicals. So if the issue is teachers' ability to monitor students for cheating, I think these smaller class sizes allow for that. The bottom line is: If somebody's watching, there's probably less cheating. If nobody is watching, well .... hopefully you get the point.

Lecture methods are a poor method for learning? Ok. Maybe that's true. But I personally find it to be very helpful. No matter how much I read the book, I always learn more from a good teacher who can answer questions about the material and present it in a new light.

Debate is healthy but online courses will become more popular as time goes on. Eventually online delivery will be replaced by another method. Distance courses are a great benefit to working adults who may not been able to return to school due to adult responsibilities. Distance education offers a flexible alternative but it is not for everyone. People who do not think it is a viable delivery method should take classes at their local college.

Very nicely put Kenneth. We all have different needs at different times in our lives. What may be good for one person may not work for someone else. I think we have to keep that in mind.

mona

Thanks Mona.

thanks ken, amen!!!!

thanks opalm.

I'm really interested in this entire discussion, since I am contemplating starting an online/self-study program(lpn-asn or bsn). I can definitely add one point since I have been researching this recently, and that is the program in particular that I've been looking into requires that you go to a learning center (such as Sylvan) to take a test. That would make cheating for a test just as difficult, or if not more difficult at a center such as this. Although, they are costly(approx. 150-200$ per test; one for each class you take). Supposedly, this is an accredited program, although if you see my thread(Legit online/self-study lpn-asn or bsn programs) it goes into more detail on this particular program and I had requested any further info anyone may have.

Along with your well thought-out response, I completely agree that whether it be online taught or class-instructed, if you make the grade and pass nclex, the achievement is great equivalently. Props to you(opalm,etc.etc.)!! :balloons: :)

Bhamlpn

Well then there you have it. You want to defend something you don't want to investigate. Hmmm...you have an awful lot to say about us picking on poe me but now you don't want to debate. That's very interesting.

Your going to investigate the testing procedures, that's funny :rotfl: I happen to know that a local program around here also has much of the course content online. Quizzes, tests, can sometimes be done online also. So many programs now are hybrid's that it is getting hard to differentiate between what is an online program and what is not.

Good Luck

I went for two years to a on Campus BSN program in Hawaii but due to my husbands job we relocated and I got in to DCN's program. In my original program there were quite a few classes that were completely online including exams and many of my class instructors allowed us to bring book or notes to an exam. I don't know if you agree with me but nursing is allot about critical thinking and you may have the concepts in front of you as you do in a hospital but if you can't put it into practice you won't be able to answer the question. This is my third semester with DCN and I'm still waiting for the day when I can get by to take an exam without studying or just looking into books because it's very, very difficult to answer about 75 question out of 4, 5 chapters in about an hour without studying even if the book is there right in front of you. Also with DCN at the end of each semester while you are in St. Louis for your clinical validations you take the NLN exam correspondent to the class you just took to see how you are doing and in what do you need to work on; for example if you took OB, you'll take the OB NLN at the campus with your instructor in the classroom and if you don't know your stuff you'll fail that for sure. I'm very happy with DCN and I was very happy as well with my Campus program at HPU in Hawaii, they both have good and negative points about it. I'm loving my clinical experiences, it's wonderful to put into practice what I'm learning in my classes and I wish I could be in that hospital everyday. I'm so happy that online education exists, and although DCN isn't 100% online since you have to go to Campus every semester at the end to be at the hospital with your instructors for clinical validations for 5 days I'm glad that I found it because being where I am (I'm in Germany) I would have had to wait until my husband's assignment ended in three years before I could go back to Nursing School and since I'm not getting any younger time is essential :-)

LTNurse

Hello everyone its been a looooooong time since I've been to the site. Im still in nursing school and its really taking alot of my time as I'm sure u all are aware of. But anyways I'm still against the online LPN-RN program. As I have said many times and will continue to say these type of programs should be of concern to the community. I'm sorry if i offended anyone with my comments regarding these types of programs, and I will stand behind them. A lot of you have said in some of your posts that you dont have the time to go on campus for your nursing education because of work and family. I understand that totally and I know its hard going to nursing school when you have a family and work. I work and i have 2 children. I only go to school 3 days a week for this semester. We have clinical rotation 7 days a week at the nursing school i attend. This makes it easy for those who have family to get their clinical time in. One girl I know does her clinicals on Sat & Sun. I have a lecture class thats in the evening. Nursing schools now are soooo flexible just look into it. They've opened up another clinical and lecture section at my school, and i'm so glad they did. You dont have to go to school 5 days a week not anymore its changed so much. I just wanna see all of us succeed in nursing. My concern is for the patients as well as you all. Just look into it before you decide to go online. I'm all for distance learning even with the BSN online. But not this its too dangerous you will not be prepared as well as you should be. Look at Deaconess College pass rate for 2004 for the online its horrible and only 3 people took the test. :)

Well I live in CA , the schools out here are not that accommodating. Most schools that offer evening classes are private, well if you have kids and a fulltime job you can not afford loans,etc. I think its fair to say most people do search for these schools, but when unsuccessful they have other options. I have been a LVN x 8 years, make very good money, so I can not afford to give up my fulltime job. I have worked many places so I think I am qualified to say that most RN's I have spoken to admit they did not recieve the proper training, thats why alot hospitals offer New Grade Programs. How can a teacher teach all her/his students. Its usually the student that finds a nice nurse at the hospital to allow the student to get hands on experience. Traditional schools also have low passing rates. I am enrolled at Excelsior their passing rate is as high as CA traditional schools if not higher. So what does that say. No one is seating with the Distance Learning student to take the Boards. I am pretty sure the same NCLEX book(s) is used by students from both learning institutions. I wish you much success with your choice of your nursing school. Maybe later your views will change, because I have a feeling Distance Learning will be more accepting with the 800,000 more nurses needed by 2010.

many of my class instructors allowed us to bring book or notes to an exam.

it's very, very difficult to answer about 75 question out of 4, 5 chapters in about an hour without studying even if the book is there right in front of you.

Whoah! Unbelieveable!

Yep ... I bet those exams are really tough, even when you're allowed to cheat.

:lol2:

At my school, people have been thrown out for bringing books and notes to an exam. They got automatic F's in the course because it's considered cheating.

Cheating ... is cheating. There is no excuse for it. And any program that allows it, online or offline, can't be much of a program to begin with.

:rolleyes:

I have worked many places so I think I am qualified to say that most RN's I have spoken to admit they did not recieve the proper training, thats why alot hospitals offer New Grade Programs. How can a teacher teach all her/his students. Its usually the student that finds a nice nurse at the hospital to allow the student to get hands on experience. Traditional schools also have low passing rates. I am enrolled at Excelsior their passing rate is as high as CA traditional schools if not higher. So what does that say.

I love it when distance learning students say traditional students don't have enough training. What a crock. Tell that to all the recruiters who travel from all over the state and are beating down our doors begging us to come work for them. :lol2:

Yep ... those hospitals must be idiots for spending a ton of money traveling and trying to hire us traditional students who don't know anything and would cost them a fortune in training. :lol2:

Most new grad programs are six weeks, tops, often a lot less than that. If, by chance, you don't know anything at that point, I don't know how you're going to make it through a new grad program, which is really just an orientation program.

As for the pass rates: if you're referring to NCLEX, California programs basically have the same rate as the rest of the country ... 85 percent. If the school doesn't maintain a decent pass rate for two years, California yanks their accreditation.

So, there are very few schools with a "low" pass rates because they don't last very long. Check the BORN website. All the pass rates are published here.

To my knowledge EC's pass rates have never been formally published but, they've been quoted as saying their pass rate is about 85 percent. No big difference there.

:rolleyes:

Specializes in Child/Adolescent Mental Health.
Whoah! Unbelieveable!

Yep ... I bet those exams are really tough, even when you're allowed to cheat.

:lol2:

At my school, people have been thrown out for bringing books and notes to an exam. They got automatic F's in the course because it's considered cheating.

Cheating ... is cheating. There is no excuse for it. And any program that allows it, online or offline, can't be much of a program to begin with.

:rolleyes:

Lizz...did you bother to read her post? She said the insructors allowed the students to use resources during the quiz.

Lizz...did you bother to read her post? She said the insructors allowed the students to use resources during the quiz.

Yeah, I read it. And I strongly disagree with it. Just because an instructor allows you to refer to notes during a quiz/exam, doesn't make it right. I still think it's cheating.

If the instructors allowed students to use books and notes at my school, the instructors would be thrown out of school along with the students.

What's the point of being tested on the material if you're allowed to refer to the material?

That's just cheating in a different form. I don't care how much you have to study beforehand ... oh gee, you don't have time to look up all the answers so you have to study and know some of the material beforehand.

That's ridiculous. I can't believe that any legitimate nursing program, online or offline, would allow this. Even if it's "allowed" it shouldn't be. It's outrageous.

:rolleyes:

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