Acceptance of Distance/Online Degrees by Other Colleges and Universities - page 4

I have taken online classes through California State University, Dominguez Hills working on my BSN (I am a diploma RN). I agree with others who have commented the coursework is not easy and I too... Read More

  1. by   Sheri257
    Quote from mona b
    Well then there you have it. You want to defend something you don't want to investigate. Hmmm...you have an awful lot to say about us picking on poe me but now you don't want to debate. That's very interesting.

    Your going to investigate the testing procedures, that's funny I happen to know that a local program around here also has much of the course content online. Quizzes, tests, can sometimes be done online also. So many programs now are hybrid's that it is getting hard to differentiate between what is an online program and what is not.

    Good Luck
    Unfortunately, once again, you've misinterpreted my post. I don't care if it's Poe or anyone else. As long as the posts make a legitimate point, dissenting points of view should be heard. That was my only point. Other than that, I don't think it's appropriate for me to speak for someone else.

    However, if it's an issue for you, I have read Poe's past posts, and I don't really see a problem there. The only problem, in my view, is that online students tend to get really upset and slam anyone who raises legitimate questions about these programs.

    You haven't once in this discussion denied statements that DCN is more vulnerable to cheating. Your only argument is that DCN students probably wouldn't want to cheat, and that open book exams do occur. (Although, quite frankly, open book exams are not allowed at my nursing school.)

    Nevertheless, if you feel comfortable with that, fine. But others may not, myself included.

    Laugh all you want, but I personally would not want to go through a program that's more vulnerable to cheating. I don't care if it's a hybrid or not, traditional or not.

    For one thing, it exposes the program to cheating scandals and the like. The integrity of the program could be questioned. But, more importantly, I don't want to work my butt off knowing that someone else could do just as well, with grades and the like, by cheating.

    That would literally drive me crazy, but that's just me.
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 22, '04
  2. by   New Castle Ken
    Distance education has been around in America for a long time. Authorities feel that the first distance learning program was a program in shorthand offered by Caleb Phillips and advertised in the Boston Gazette in 1728. Since then distance learning continues to gain popularity. In 1801 International Correspondence Schools began offering vocational level courses and eventually degrees by distance. The University of Chicago established a correspondence division in 1891.

    Distance courses have been offered by correspondence, direct link TV, regular TV, and radio. I feel that distance education will continue to be popular and I don't feel that distance education will go away anytime soon. In 2002 a study showed that over 50% of public colleges were offering distance courses and another 13% planned to offer them within 3 years. Distance education is not a new form of education, it is a delivery system. The latest form of distance education is online course delivery which is now the most popular. Although TV and correspondence is still used, most colleges offering distance courses have switched to online course delivery using a Course Management System (like BlackBoard).

    Most students that have actually taken online courses (and most professors that have taught online courses) will agree that courses require more time and effort than traditional lecture classes. Also research has shown that the lecture methods is a poor method for learning.

    Cheating and plagiarism are rampant on most college campuses as well as online programs. I remember taking classes at the University of Delaware in amphitheaters with hundreds of other students. You couldn't ask a question unless you risked standing in front of 300 or more students and holding up the class and professor not to mention risking asking a question that the class or professor thought was dumb. We took paper and pencil tests but with 2 graduate students walking up the isles watching 300+ students, I am sure cheating went on in some form. Plagiarism is a major problem with regular classes as well as with online classes. Online professors must make sure that assignments reflect specific tasks and use a plagiarism detection service like TrunItIn. Many colleges now have licenses to use this service for their faculty. The lecture method is viewed by many educators as a poor method of learning, however, most traditional classes continue to use this method.

    Thomas Russell from the North Carolina State University has been gathering studies from 1929 to present on various educational delivery systems and the research shows that the delivery system does not matter. His book, "The No Significant Difference Phenomenon" and companion Web site lists the research to date. "The No Significant Difference Phenomenon" is well known by educators and I invite others to view this site (http://www.teleeducation.nb.ca/nosignificantdifference)

    Debate is healthy but online courses will become more popular as time goes on. Eventually online delivery will be replaced by another method. Distance courses are a great benefit to working adults who may not been able to return to school due to adult responsibilities. Distance education offers a flexible alternative but it is not for everyone. People who do not think it is a viable delivery method should take classes at their local college.

    If it hadn't been for distance education I would never have moved past my AASN and would be chained to a hospital forever. Not that there is anything wrong with hospital nursing, I did it for over 25 years. I just want the flexibility that a graduate degree offers.
  3. by   mona b RN
    [QUOTE]Debate is healthy but online courses will become more popular as time goes on. Eventually online delivery will be replaced by another method. Distance courses are a great benefit to working adults who may not been able to return to school due to adult responsibilities. Distance education offers a flexible alternative but it is not for everyone. People who do not think it is a viable delivery method should take classes at their local college.

    Very nicely put Kenneth. We all have different needs at different times in our lives. What may be good for one person may not work for someone else. I think we have to keep that in mind.

    mona
  4. by   opalmRN
    thanks ken, amen!!!!
    Last edit by opalmRN on Feb 22, '04
  5. by   poe me
    Oh my God, I'm really surprised that some of you think that I'm against D/L and I'm not really. As I have stated before I have nothing personally against Deaconess and any other D/L program. Deaconess is a good institution to recieve your nursing education and its been that way for many years. That's why I can't understand why they created the ASN web-based program when they had success over the years with their diploma and BSN programs. When I checked the NLN web site DCN ASN is accredited, not the web base part. I've only have legetimate concerns on how we recieve our nursing edu. like so many others. When I first started DCN web-based, there were so many people telling me that I was crazy and you can't teach yourself to be a nurse. It was very hurtful to hear those kind of comments,because I wanted to be a nurse so bad and this was the easiest way to do it. Through out the course I felt like I was not being challenge, so to speak. I didn't like the way the material was being presented to me. So I made my decision to leave DCN for a traditional nursing edu. I DID NOT FLUNK OUT like some of you would like to believe. I'm very sorry if I did offend anyone, but I will stand by my comments and concerns that I have posted. I just want all of us to be competent and safe caregivers that's all.
  6. by   mona b RN
    Quote from poe me
    Oh my God, I'm really surprised that some of you think that I'm against D/L and I'm not really. As I have stated before I have nothing personally against Deaconess and any other D/L program. Deaconess is a good institution to recieve your nursing education and its been that way for many years. That's why I can't understand why they created the ASN web-based program when they had success over the years with their diploma and BSN programs. When I checked the NLN web site DCN ASN is accredited, not the web base part. I've only have legetimate concerns on how we recieve our nursing edu. like so many others. When I first started DCN web-based, there were so many people telling me that I was crazy and you can't teach yourself to be a nurse. It was very hurtful to hear those kind of comments,because I wanted to be a nurse so bad and this was the easiest way to do it. Through out the course I felt like I was not being challenge, so to speak. I didn't like the way the material was being presented to me. So I made my decision to leave DCN for a traditional nursing edu. I DID NOT FLUNK OUT like some of you would like to believe. I'm very sorry if I did offend anyone, but I will stand by my comments and concerns that I have posted. I just want all of us to be competent and safe caregivers that's all.
    Well, maybe if you would have said all of this in the first place the misunderstanding may have been avoided. All I am saying is that just because you had a hard time with the program doesn't give you the right to go around saying that it is a bad program or otherwise insinuate that one cannot become a competent nurse by completing the program.
    There are people here on this bb that attend DCN so naturally you have stepped on some toes.

    On another note, when it comes down to it, you are always teaching yourself. When it comes time for my clinicals, I will have a preceptor all to myself, can you say that? Major bonus if you ask me.

    BTW, DCN is fully accredited.

    mona
  7. by   Sheri257
    Geez Opalm:

    Can you make the font any bigger? I can't see it, even with the bright red lettering.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 22, '04
  8. by   macmagick
    Again, as the OP of this thread, I want to thank EVERYONE for their thoughts and comments regarding this issue. As for my original post, I am still hoping to hear of others who have actually obtained their degrees online either initial or advanced and then gone on to pursure acceptance into advanced degree programs from colleges or universitites other than the "online/distance" college they attended.
  9. by   mona b RN
    Quote from macmagick
    Again, as the OP of this thread, I want to thank EVERYONE for their thoughts and comments regarding this issue. As for my original post, I am still hoping to hear of others who have actually obtained their degrees online either initial or advanced and then gone on to pursure acceptance into advanced degree programs from colleges or universitites other than the "online/distance" college they attended.
    Good Lord, was that the original post We did get wrapped up in other issues. :imbar

    I wonder if you should post on the general nurses forum, maybe you will get a better response from some of the experienced nurses.

    Good Luck

    mona
  10. by   traumaRUs
    I can only speak for the University of Phoenix online program. I've been in the ADN to BSN since Nov 02 and will be finished with the BSN in May 04. There are no tests in these classes at all, so cheating isn't an issue. There is another thread floating around too about the validity of online education. Personally, I did the LPN to ADN to BSN and (hopefully) onto the MSN. Because hubby was in the Air Force for many years, I've done traditional classes, video tape classes (yikes - that was a long time ago), and now online education. I've taken classes at a total of 9 universities in four countries and many states. Anyone that wants to cheat certainly can. However, I guess you need to figure ethics into this somewhere too. As to the OP - I have been very happy with UofP - it is fully accredited, its instructors are clinically current and all have at least a masters degree, with several having their doctorate. IMHO its well worth the money. Good luck...
  11. by   Sheri257
    Quote from New Castle Ken
    Most students that have actually taken online courses (and most professors that have taught online courses) will agree that courses require more time and effort than traditional lecture classes. Also research has shown that the lecture methods is a poor method for learning.

    Cheating and plagiarism are rampant on most college campuses as well as online programs.
    You definitely make some excellent points Ken. But I'd also like to point out a few things.

    When you talk about huge class size, I have to agree. But what you're talking about is not the norm, at least with the nursing programs I'm familiar with in California. Both the BSN and ADN programs graduate about 60 students each year. That means they take a new class of about 30, maybe 40 students each semester. That's pretty typical of the five nursing programs in my area. The only exception is one CC which takes about 50 students per semester and graduates 100 students a year.

    Why are the class sizes so small? Even in the BSN program? Because the hospitals can only take that many students for clinicals. So if the issue is teachers' ability to monitor students for cheating, I think these smaller class sizes allow for that. The bottom line is: If somebody's watching, there's probably less cheating. If nobody is watching, well .... hopefully you get the point.

    Lecture methods are a poor method for learning? Ok. Maybe that's true. But I personally find it to be very helpful. No matter how much I read the book, I always learn more from a good teacher who can answer questions about the material and present it in a new light.
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 22, '04
  12. by   New Castle Ken
    [QUOTE=mona b]
    Debate is healthy but online courses will become more popular as time goes on. Eventually online delivery will be replaced by another method. Distance courses are a great benefit to working adults who may not been able to return to school due to adult responsibilities. Distance education offers a flexible alternative but it is not for everyone. People who do not think it is a viable delivery method should take classes at their local college.

    Very nicely put Kenneth. We all have different needs at different times in our lives. What may be good for one person may not work for someone else. I think we have to keep that in mind.

    mona
    Thanks Mona.
  13. by   New Castle Ken
    Quote from opalm
    thanks ken, amen!!!!
    thanks opalm.

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