ethics of holy water and Islam

Carlos Casteneda · Nov 7, 2005

thank you for all the posts

the situation is not quite as volatile as it was but we are involved in discussion so that we can reach a more appropriate course of action.

Roy Fokker, BSN, RN · Nov 8, 2005

All though most major religions have some version of their own "Holy Water", I thought it was generally accepted that if someone was speaking about 'Holy Water' here in the Western world, they are refering to Christian Holy Water.

If I was speaking to you of 'Holy Water', would you assume I was speaking about the River Ganges?

runningfool · Nov 8, 2005

It is important to respect a family's religious beliefs. The water could be tested to make sure it is not acid or any other harmful substance. (as one poster mentioned) I think it is the Catholics (I could be wrong which religion for sure) that wears a special card on a string around their neck, it is believed that the person must be wearing it before they die in order to get into heaven. I heard of a situation (told to me by a nursing instructor) that a patient came in coding wearing one of these. The doctor riped it off because it was "in his way". When the nurse explained its importance and purpose, the doctor respond by saying "Hog wash!" and proceeded to work on the patient. The patient ended up not making it, without her card on. Whether it is true or not, the family firmly believed that their mother was not able to go to heaven because of what this doctor did. Imagine being one of those family members and having to live with that. Very upsetting.

Hi!

It's called a Scapular. I don't know if I spelled that correctly. If you die wearing it you're supposed to go straight to heaven. But you don't need it to get into heaven if you die. I just thought I'd clarify that.

Annie

UmmIbrahim · Dec 2, 2011

I believe she was putting "zam zam" water into the tube, i suggest you google it, but its generally considered sacred water. Many Muslims consider it blessed and when going on Hajj will bring some back. While I dont agree with the relative pouring it down the tubing because who knows whether it was real ZamZam water or what, still...its considered sacred and the relatives intentions were right. I probably would have tried to have found a different way for it to have been administered or suggested the relative say doa'a (supplications) and read soraat fr0m the Quraan over the patient instead, making sure to explain how just pouring it in may actually harm the patient because of the pts state. But, thats my take...

UmmIbrahim · Dec 2, 2011

Considering that holy water is used in the Roman Catholic Rite and not Islamic, I would question the sincerity and base of the sister's belief system. It is possible a neighbor or friend gave her this advice but a true believer would never mix the rites of two diverse religious belief systems.
Grannynurse:balloons:

See my previous post...just cuz Catholics have sacred or holy water doesnt mean any other faith doesnt either...

MN-Nurse, ASN, RN · Dec 2, 2011

We are nursing a Muslim lady with a diagnosis of permanent vegetative state,
Today a Nurse interupted her sister pouring a substance into a jug of water used to provide flushes down her peg. The nurse asked her to stop a debate ensued, the sister said she had been told that if the holy water was given for a week the patient would get better, it was obvious that she beleived this in her heart. what would you do

I'd flush the patient's tube with the "holy water."

Monchat · Dec 2, 2011

I agree with carolain's comment that drinking the water with pieces of paper is not an Islamic value. I do believe in drinking zam zam water and its benefits.

Virtues of ZamZam Water

"God has made all living creatures out of water. People require water for almost for everything but not all water carries the same value and significance. Muslims refer to the water of Zamzam as something revered and unique. They crave this mysterious liquid and love to drink it whenever they can. And for those who managed to go to the Hajj, they return home carrying it for thousands of miles as a prized possession and to give as special gift to their friends and families.

So what is so special about Zamzam water ? In a word: Everything!

There is nothing ordinary about it. The miracle of how it came to being in the middle of a desert, its consistency throught out 1000s of years, the beneficial qualities it has, the fact that it never dries up. This water is special.

The fact is, this small and only 5 ft deep well is far away from any other source or body of water. It is self replenishing. It is constantly replenishing itself in order to produce gallons upon gallons of water for the consumption of thirsty pilgrims plus the additional amount that is bottled up and also the amount that is taken as gifts and distributed worldwide to millions. SubhanAllah!

Zam zam water has scientifically been proven to contain healing qualities due to its higher content of Calcium and Magnesium Salts and also natural fluorides that encompass a germicidal action.

It is also an established scientific fact that pools orwater wells tend to grow vegetation such as algae– especially in warm climates. Amazingly this is not the case in the well of Zamzam. It has remained free from bilogical contaminations".

Read on

http://islamzpeace.com/2008/12/04/960/

EMT-newbie · Dec 2, 2011

Speaking from an outsider's perspective the holy water's provenance and religious connection has nothing to do with the base fact that a civilian was adulterating supplies used to treat a patient.

Is ensuring the provenance of all "stuff" making its way into a patient not of paramount importance?

Rob72, ASN, RN · Dec 2, 2011

If I was speaking to you of 'Holy Water', would you assume I was speaking about the River Ganges?

Heh,heh. Yes, the Ganges is supposed to have healing properties also. An infusion of that in the peg would definitely have some effect...

PMFB-RN, RN · Dec 2, 2011

I don't see how this is in anyway an ethical issue, unless the issue you are refering to is the nurses insensitivity.

It's obviously hog wash that holy water is going to do anything to benifit the patient. However my opinion on the matter as the patients nurse are irrelevent. Assuming it was actually potable water and not some other substance. My rule is that if it's something that will not harm the patient (like for example she wanted to pour the water into the mouth of my intubated patient, happed to me once), or disturbing to other patients, then whatever mumbo jumbo the family wants is fine and I will advocate for them to be able to do it. I do draw the line at somethings though. Once had a native American family who wanted to preform a cermonoy over thier dead father. They described it to me and I OK'ed it. However when I saw smoke coming from the room and went in to discover a sizable fire going in a clay pot. I put an end to the cermonoy (and fire) right now. Their description did not include lighting a campfire in my ICU room.

PMFB-RN, RN · Dec 2, 2011

Get an order .

*** An order? Seriously? Geeze it's like some nurses are afraid to use the restroom without an physicians order. There is no reason at all to involve a physician in this. You already (presumably) have an order or a policy or protocal to flush the tube with water. What kind of water (assuming we are talking about potable water from a clean source) is nothing to get an physician involved with. WHat happens if you get a bigott physician who refuses to give the order? Easier to get forgivness than permission.

systoly · Dec 2, 2011

What does it matter whether the patient is Muslim, Hindu or Christian and aunt Bertha wants to bring in water from the creek down yonder? It matters what clinical setting you're in and what you can administer appropriately and safely. My question is does the clinical setting allow for staff to use Rx and nutrition provided by the family or not?