Question for atheist nurses

stephanie. · Jun 12, 2013

Pushing your religion on a thread directed at atheist nurses is the most important thing ever? Are you serious? That is offensive.
I am more agnostic than atheist. However, if a patient wishes to pray I will give them the space and time to do so. I will listen respectfully if they ask me to be present while they pray. I will not lead a prayer with a patient as that is outside my comfort zone. I will be more than happy to contact the chaplain. They are trained specifically to deal with matters of a religious nature. As a nurse, I am specifically trained to deal with nursing care. With all the duties expected of nursing, I will turn those duties that can be better handled by those with the proper training over to someone with that training.

I've seen plenty of religious threads commented on by atheists chiming in their 2 cents.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jun 12, 2013

I've seen plenty of religious threads commented on by atheists chiming in their 2 cents.

^And that can come off as offensive too. I participated in a thread and pointed that out in one thread...if one believes their spiritual journey was defined in a religious perspective, that it would be offensive to dismiss anyone who would find comfort in that.

I think the issue here, at least to me, is when the word "atheist" is spoken, the first instinct is for a percentage of people to interrupt and "save" them. That's offensive. That is the MOST stereotypical move to make. I think it's WORSE than the name calling, especially the "fear" of individuals, for example, the whole "go to Russia" comment that a poster revealed.

For me, It's like a automatic sense to control others because its uncomfortable to see something different, and the FIRST thing one who is uncomfortable is to "fix" that feeling, but they turn it out wards to a person instead...and that is just a personal example of it-see above post from me when I had to sit down with a dear friend who thought I was an atheist...she admitted she was doing the said behavior.

It is also an assumption that atheists/agnostics/spiritual individuals do not know about religion, and that is far from the truth.

If people would (and they can) treat EVERYONE respectfully-agree to disagree, but actually listen (in these forums read) to what one says about a belief system that most people, in my opinion, have been taught is "negative", they would see that, especially in THIS thread, there are a ton of commonalities that we do share, we just have different perspectives...leslie's post I can identify with, yet, to read the response from posters who are atheists to be awed by nature, assess and identify what spiritual needs they need or clarify and making sure their words do not offend other posters I think these posts has been enough for the OP to realize that atheists can be "awe inspired" and it's not exclusively to one who is religious, or one religion and that is OK; and can give EXCELLENT nursing care.

hgt219 · Jun 12, 2013

People can't save people....and I found this quote by Florence Nightingale :)

“If I could give you information of my life it would be to show how a woman of very ordinary ability has been led by God in strange and unaccustomed paths to do in His service what He has done in her. And if I could tell you all, you would see how God has done all, and I nothing. I have worked hard, very hard, that is all; and I have never refused God anything.”

― Florence Nightingale

tags: god, service, work 23 people liked it

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jun 12, 2013

People can't save people....

Yet, some people ask if one is "saved"; "do you have a church home," "come to my church I NEED for you to get SAVED!!!"-these are actual quotes from PEOPLE I know...no matter how you slice it...someone had tried to "save" me, when they DON'T need to, really, I'm OK :)

I had to give them a "come to Jesus moment" (like in John 6:3) on my spiritual perspective, and how fulfilled I am with that. I am still close friends, with the exception of ONE...she couldn't come to terms with how I was functioning beautifully without having the EXACT same belief system as her, and that's unfortunate. *shrugs*

...and again your post implored posters to read a post, a doctrine that a group on this thread doesn't believe, plus your post in people to know before the end....sounded like "saving" to me, and I found it flame-ish.

I know where you are coming from. I do. Your heart is in the right place for YOU-and that is perfectly OK; however as NURSES:

We give knowledge support, comfort. Scientific and Artistic interventions for the WHOLE person...and we don't have to be affiliated with a church, synagogue, etc, to do that...it has nothing to do with us as nurses...we are focused on our patients needs, and that can be and will be adequately done, regardless of belief system.

That's the basis of the question for the post. And people will continue to do nursing with their own personal belief system, always putting the patient FIRST, and that's OK. :)

PMFB-RN, RN · Jun 12, 2013

As I read through these posts, I was thinking : As trained, educated medical professionals knowing how intricately the body works, how could a nurse, pa, md etc not believe in a higher power. I dont judge or cut another down for their beliefs..but I just always thought it was so amazing how we work and it cant be just coincidence.

*** Interesting. I see the same thing, how intricately the body works (or in our business doesn't work) and wonder how anyone CAN believe in a higher power.

I have often thought when caring, for example a baby with a congenital heart defect, or a young mother with ovarian cancer, that if our bodies were created the creator needs to go back to engineering school.

raynelle09 · Jun 12, 2013

Please... tell me you are not serious? Other peoples personal beliefs or lack thereof, are just that... personal. They are none of yours or anyone else's "business."

Re read what I said and than ask me that question again? Lol never did I once say it was about me or I needed to know what religion someone else is , I honestly could care less. What I said was , if THEY were interested I am a mature Christian that I could sit down and have a personal conversation about our beliefs . Honestly that's all I can say to u because people like you who like to twist up others words , it's not even worth having a conversation with because u only have one intention and that is to only focus on how u feel . I don't need to argue with you or prove anything so if u disagree oh well and btw I was very serious ! Also I am not led by religion but by Jesus to different things try studying that .

raynelle09 · Jun 12, 2013

raynelle09, regardless of your personal belief, the focus is on THE PATIENT, REGARDLESS of the nurses belief, holistic care is given...it is the foundation of nursing practice to take care of patients HOLISTICALLY...regardless of race, culture, income, and RELIGION.
Excellent. No issues here.
...as I asked another poster..."What is truth???"...
And I don't need YOUR answer to YOUR "truth", I'm ok...really. :)
Great!!! But not everyone, including your teammates on the healthcare team, and especially your PATIENTS (I can't stress this enough) may not want to have a respectful conversation about their belief system, or your belief system. It's personal, and it can be uncomfortable for your patients. If they are having a spiritual crisis, we assess, and plan accordingly to THE PATIENTS NEEDS.
NEGATIVE...in the realm of nursing, the nurses belief system is NOT in play...
Really, what is saved??? You don't have to answer the question either...I'm good...I don't question them about that, unless the patient wants to be "saved"; again, I assess and refer accordingly, and utilize chaplain services, utilize The Daily Bread; bible verses, even a Bible...what ever is needed, again, for the PATIENT.
Right here, depending on where you work as a nurse, you MAY lose your job if you take it upon yourself to do this, especially if this patient doesn't just wants to reflect, they may not your "truth", per se, just a listening ear.
Again, NEGATIVE IT DOES NOT MATTER TO A NURSE...we treat patients HOLISTICALLY...it doesn't matter whether a patient is saved, "not saved", humanistic, polytheistic, deist, any religion...we as nurses are committed to treat the patient regardless how we feel, personally. We work hard to empower our patients holistically, and it ONLY matters that MY PATIENT gets what they NEED...and NO ONE has to be "saved", Christian, monotheistic, polytheistic, Wiccan, etc. to do this correctly, as many posters have stated beautifully. There is no superior religion who is the "best nurse."
I can see how some religious members can feel this "confusion" of one who doesn't choose to be saved. had to sit down with one of my dearest friends who is saved and tell her my beliefs, because she was telling people that I was an atheist, when I am not...I'm a spiritual agnostic, which means MANY different things, lol, but TO ME-which is the only thing that matters to me PRIVATELY-is I don't feel the need to invest my personal spiritual journey with a particular religion. And that's ok. My beliefs and moral compass comforts me, and allows me to be the best person possible, equally as much as my nursing compass allows me to do the same.
That does not mean I have no clue about religion, either. I find Paul's letter to the Corinthians to be thought provoking and inspiring as much as the Bhagavad Gita, the Dhammapada, Pirkei Aviot in the Talmud, Surah 2:62 speaks to the respect of various "faiths"as long as they do what is "right".
I find inspiration from nature, and even MORE, the human perspective...what a pair of eyes may see on their journey may be different than the next pair of eyes; even silence can be most inspiring to me, and again, that is OK. I can utilize the sources that my patient needs, what the patient wants.
That's ONLY what matters...it's not about ME.

For the lady who decided to dissect my story lol this one is for you ! Number one , don't try to take bits and pieces out of my paragraph to falsely justify how you feel . 2. If you don't desire my truth I sleep fine , and you could have just kept scrolling lol it's not worth it right? 3. Go back and CORRECTLY read what I said when comes down to have a MATURE conversation with a patient about religion, it's not uncomfortable if they ask you ! Also trust me I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't put the patients needs first ! MOVING ON !! 4. Oh I never fear losing my job because once again you didn't read or just picked out what parts you wanted to attack , that's how people in the dark operate so half the things you said are of course IRRELEVANT!! 5. As the job thing goes I serve a God that provided me with a awesome job and yours as well so trust me like I said if you would have read what i said , and had not been so focused on attacking me then you have understood even if you didn't agree and like i said before ,be there done that MOVING ON!

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Jun 12, 2013

Re read what I said and than ask me that question again? Lol never did I once say it was about me or I needed to know what religion someone else is , I honestly could care less. What I said was , if THEY were interested I am a mature Christian that I could sit down and have a personal conversation about our beliefs . Honestly that's all I can say to u because people like you who like to twist up others words , it's not even worth having a conversation with because u only have one intention and that is to only focus on how u feel . I don't need to argue with you or prove anything so if u disagree oh well and btw I was very serious ! Also I am not led by religion but by Jesus to different things try studying that .

"Led by Jesus" or not, a job as a nurse has no place in sitting down with patients to discuss our own personal lives and/or religious beliefs. If asked to or not. A simple "my job is to make sure your spiritual needs are met. Can I call the Chaplin for you? Or perhaps your religious leader?"

That you are a mature Christian can and perhaps does serve you well in your personal life, your church life, in being a leader in your own home life on your own time. But working for facilities (most of which mission statements have non-discriminatory statements regarding religion) it is best to keep one's own personal beliefs out of the equation--whether a patient's line of questioning gets personal or not.

If you are intrigued by the thought of religious counseling of patients, there are many certifcations that a nurse can obtain to be able to do just that. Then you become part of the Chaplin part of your facility. Otherwise, as a general nurse on a unit, one usually should not get into personal beliefs. It crosses boundries that should not be crossed, in my opinion.

raynelle09 · Jun 12, 2013

"Led by Jesus" or not, a job as a nurse has no place in sitting down with patients to discuss our own personal lives and/or religious beliefs. If asked to or not. A simple "my job is to make sure your spiritual needs are met. Can I call the Chaplin for you? Or perhaps your religious leader?"
That you are a mature Christian can and perhaps does serve you well in your personal life, your church life, in being a leader in your own home life on your own time. But working for facilities (most of which mission statements have non-discriminatory statements regarding religion) it is best to keep one's own personal beliefs out of the equation--whether a patient's line of questioning gets personal or not.
If you are intrigued by the thought of religious counseling of patients, there are many certifcations that a nurse can obtain to be able to do just that. Then you become part of the Chaplin part of your facility. Otherwise, as a general nurse on a unit, one usually should not get into personal beliefs. It crosses boundries that should not be crossed, in my opinion.

Exactly your opinion !! God bless

raynelle09 · Jun 12, 2013

This is for all my followers of Christ! Take the high road and pray for those that are lost simple as that ! Do as Jesus did when he encountered unbelievers , simply walk away and don't take it to heart :) !

edmia, BSN, RN · Jun 12, 2013

Whoa - this thread really took off while I wasn't looking!
A couple of things:
1) I am a Christian.
2) Because I have a belief in a deity, I began to wonder how atheist nurses interpret the dictum that, among a patient's many needs, there are spiritual needs to be met.
3) Only a few people actually answered the question that I asked, which was probably unclear because I was trying too hard to be respectful. Put a different way, that question is: do atheist nurses believe that humans have a spiritual as well as physical and mental component? If not, do you take the requirement to care for spiritual needs (patient and self) to be strictly a mental health issue (not meaning that spiritual needs = mental health problems.) If so, what does spirituality mean to an atheist?

Thank you for rephrasing your question. I was raised as an atheist and told by my parents that if I wanted a religion, I could certainly adopt one. Later in life, I did. But I will address your question anyway.

It is not a valid question because you don't seem to think that there is a difference between religion and spirituality. There is. Spirituality does not equal belief in G-d.

Nurses who don't believe in G-d per say are perfectly capable of understanding and having compassion for other people's beliefs. Even if my religion or actually, my practice of religion, is not the same as my patient's I am able to help them spiritually.

Atheists are whole persons. They are not lacking the ability to be spiritual, they just choose to not be religious because they don't believe in G-d. They're not walking around with flat affect like zombies. They're people who are empathetic-- that's all you need to meet your patients where they are.

If you don't know the difference between religion and spirituality, you will not be able to understand the patients who identify as atheists.

It's really great that you have your religion to help you, but you really need to research the true meaning of spirituality. Otherwise, you're not getting it. You're not going to be able to care for the spirit of your patients in a true way.

Thanks for the question. I think many are confused about the meaning of these terms.

Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jun 12, 2013

This is for all my followers of Christ please don't argue Take the high road and pray for those that are lost simple as that ! Do as Jesus did when he encountered unbelievers , simply walk away and don't take it to heart :) ![/quote']
As for your response to your previous post to me, there is no attack, no argument...why should there be??? I am examining your response and addressing the point that where your points will go so far in the nursing world. And this is the confusion that goes into people who are not comfortable to those who CHOOSE a different path. I respect your viewpoint, it seems as though you are choosing to allege I'm "attacking" you based about how I interpreted your post. How "respectable" is that? I am enlightening you on how nursing works...AGAIN, it is all about THE PATIENT. I cannot stress this enough, no matter what journey one comes from, when you enter the realm of patient care, WE are on the PATIENT's journey...that's what matters.
We are entitled to disagree with each other...but again, WE ARE HERE for our PATIENTS. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to nurse. And it would be absolutely DULL for everyone to agree and it is offensive to believe that because we choose to have a different belief system that we are "foolish". What is "foolish" is to not respect the foundation of nursing by not adequately addressing the needs of the patient, and you stated you do this, which is GREAT.
However, there are many who get into nursing for other means, no matter how noble, and get caught up in not realizing what we do is scientific, evidence-based, and holistic...it is BOTH sides of the "belief" coin, and you will be faced with many who don't have the same belief system, or identify with a common religion and still have a different set of how they engage in spiritual practice. And AGAIN, as I stayed, that's OK...and actually, perfection.