"Fired for NO Reason"

Nurses Professionalism

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we often see threads with the title "fired for no reason," or "new grad harassed and fired" or something to that effect. and i always feel at least a little sympathy for the individual involved, if only because i can clearly see by reading between the lines of their self-justifying post that there was a reason for their termination, even if they just don't get it. (there are always a few posts every year from a new grad who is convinced that the reason she's not getting along with her co-workers is that she's just so beautiful they're all jealous, that crowds of mean people are following her around, that she's so wonderful she's going to rock the er or icu or nicu or or and no one sees her wonderfulness clearly, or that some mean, tired, old nurse who ought to retire and get out of the way is targeting her for no good reason.)

i worked with a new grad who was recently terminated for, as she puts it, totally bogus reasons. evidently seeing mine as a sympathetic ear, she went on and on and on about how unfair it was that management expected her to get her act together and actually understand what was going on with her patients. "i've got the time management thing down pat," she said. "i don't know what else they want. they're just picking on me for no good reason." i liked sal, i really did. she was interesting and entertaining and really, really nice. she was also smart, hard-working (when she was at work) and well-educated. but she didn't study outside of work, and really didn't understand what was going on with her patients. i participated in several meetings with her in which it was pointed out that it's not enough to do the tasks, you have to understand why you're doing them. it's not enough to draw the labs. you have to understand what the results mean and then address them. for instance, if the inr is 9, it might explain the nosebleed, the cherry red urine and the fact that the hemoglobin is now 6. giving the coumadin at 6pm as scheduled is not a good thing, even if you gave it right on time and were able to explain to the patient that "it's a blood thinner." i could go on and on.

i got a call from sal today, complaining that she knows she's blackballed for no good reason because she just can't get another job. she wanted me to give her a reference. did she just not get it?

all you new grads out there who are convinced that you're being picked on for no reason, that your more experienced colleagues are just out to get you, and that you're being unfairly targeting, harassed, or picked on, hear this: it may be something you're doing (or not doing) and all those "mean people" are trying to explain it to you so you catch on, learn your job and succeed. we all tried over and over with sal, and she still doesn't get it. are you guilty of the same thing? if your preceptor says you lack critical thinking skills, do you take it to heart, think about it and learn from it? or are you convinced that the entire issue is that she's jealous of your extreme good looks? if your charge nurse charges you with a deficit in your time management skills do you spend time figuring out where you could speed things up a bit? or do you dismiss her as a tired old dog who can't learn a new trick and ought to retire anyway? are you taking to heart and benefitting from any negative feedback you're getting, however poorly given it is? or are you obsessing about how "mean" that nurse was to you and totally overlooking the message?

i wish sal would have "gotten it." she would have been delightful to work with if she had. but right now she's focused on badmouthing her preceptors and the charge nurse, and she still doesn't understand what she did wrong. don't make the same mistakes.

Specializes in A and E, Medicine, Surgery.

Thank you Ruby I think this is a wonderful post and I agree with every word in it. I also think it's a corageous post as I am sure that you could anticipate the fall out :)

I take mentoring newly qualified staff as a priviledge. I love their enthusiasm their energy and their thirst for knowledge. I understand that some of them arrive with anxiety and fear and that once in the uniform patients cannot distinguish between a newly qualified and a 5year in nurse.

BUT every so often a nurse comes along and they just are not cut out to nurse. Despite all the guidance and help in the world they just have not got what it takes. we sometimes forget as nurses how much responsibility we hold and lives literally do depend on our competence. The big question for me is would I want that nurse looking after a member of my family??? It is so hard when you have to go down the dismissal route and I would only go there after exploring every option BUT surely that is better than turning a blind eye and condoning unsafe practice.

Thankyou Ruby - you have my respect :)

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
"....... The big question for me is would I want that nurse looking after a member of my family???"

It would never be my choice to have a new grad with questionable skills in ICU in the first place, and definitely not caring for any of my family members!

However, do we really know how she would function with 6 months of positive, standardised preceptorship, by nurses who believe that new grads can make it in ICU without previous M/S experience. Nurses working together usually don't "diss" each other, which is possibly why the second set of twinsy preceptors seconded the opinion of the first set. What is the reason for 2 preceptors at a time?

Maybe I'm just for the underdog here, but I have to say it again, I think she was overwhelmed with a double dose of unsupportive mentors, and a pseudo supporter in the wings, in a scary situation not appropriate for newbys. :madface:

Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.

I wonder what ever happened to the O/p? Did she find another spot? Have a different experience? Where are you now?

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I wonder what ever happened to the O/p? Did she find another spot? Have a different experience? Where are you now?

I'm still in the SICU. And Sal found a mental health position that suits her to a T.

Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
I'm still in the SICU. And Sal found a mental health position that suits her to a T.

I am very glad to hear this. The right outcome for all and success.......

"....... The big question for me is would I want that nurse looking after a member of my family???"

It would never be my choice to have a new grad with questionable skills in ICU in the first place, and definitely not caring for any of my family members!

However, do we really know how she would function with 6 months of positive, standardised preceptorship, by nurses who believe that new grads can make it in ICU without previous M/S experience. Nurses working together usually don't "diss" each other, which is possibly why the second set of twinsy preceptors seconded the opinion of the first set. What is the reason for 2 preceptors at a time?

Maybe I'm just for the underdog here, but I have to say it again, I think she was overwhelmed with a double dose of unsupportive mentors, and a pseudo supporter in the wings, in a scary situation not appropriate for newbys. :madface:

I tell you, insurance is messed up. Maybe we do need a healthcare reform because insurance companies are putting themselves out of business. They won't even insure healthy people anymore!!!:uhoh3: I wonder what the healthcare system is going to do when the baby boomers hit the system hard, they've run off all the good nurses like yourself, and the newbies making all the mistakes are the only one's left???!!! It's going to be an eye opener.:yeah::yeah: You know how America is, let's wait until the problem is out of control and then try to find a solution.:eek:

As far as preceptor's are concerned, you're exactly right. I know because I've been there and it's no fun. Until you gain the knowledge and competency, you're a sitting target. There are cliques everywhere and if a clique decides they don't want you, they will get rid of you, especially if the supervisor just happens to be in that group...Hmmm...I wonder how I know that?:rolleyes: I know just from being a male nurse. I don't care how good of a job you do and how long you've been a nurse, you don't totally fit in because you shave your face in the morning and there's just something different about you.:rolleyes: I could write a book about piss poor preceptor's but I don't want to get fired up.:devil: You know, the preceptor who is never around to ask questions to(Out taking a smoke break), the preceptor who deserts you and the patient during an arthroscopy case and then the supervisor threatens to take your..... license, or how about the preceptor who blames you in front of the surgeon in the middle of a case for a missing item that was really her responsibility(It really was). I could go on and on. After I refused to work anymore with the person in the last example, I was threatened to be fired-I had numerous things done by that preceptor that were way out of line including some very prejudice acts. Who would have ever thought-the white man experiencing prejudice behavior and I thought we were the cause of all the problems. It happens!!!!!!!:mad::mad:

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
I am very glad to hear this. The right outcome for all and success.......

Did the "end" of getting a job which may be suitable, justify the "means" by which that decision was made?

I believe that there is a kinder, gentler way to achieve appropriate employment, without traumatising new grads, as Sal was. It would be great if nursing schools took some responsibility for managing their adjustment to working conditions (for a price, of course), that would be optional, thereby promoting a useful program.

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.

Post # 487 begs the age-old consternation regarding those who balk at anything new.

When I worked as an inservice coordinator and in infection control, I was often the "messenger" others wanted killed. You should have seen those in procurement telling me that I couldn't have "all those gloves, sharps containers, and even soap, when universal/standard precautions came upon our scene.

I had hoped that male nurses were accepted/included by female ones and the public by now, as you've been around for quite a while. It's so sad that pioneers not only have the difficulty of carving their path (I remember when male nurses weren't allowed to work in OB); and they also have to impress everyone with their capability, more than anyone else.

In the prenatal classes I taught, I used to say that testosterone didn't prevent one from changing diapers; and I believe that those with that hormone can become excellent nurses. Male doctors were accepted quickly enough .....except in Muslim society......

We're always going through growing pains when new attitudes are developed. I'm so embaressed by the hoo-ha being made in the military by homophobes. How on earth did such high ranking officers get where they are, while not accepting that many of their sex simply prefer each other? It's downright kittenish, to be afraid that someone attracted to their own sex might make unwanted advances to others who prefer the opposite sex. How many people have had to fight off the unwanted advances by those of the opposite sex? Enough to make sexual harassment in the workplace (which includes soldiers' baracks) unlawful.

To them I can only say, GROW UP!! :dncgbby:

I'm still in the SICU. And Sal found a mental health position that suits her to a T.

i had presumed your post to be tongue in cheek, after all, someone with so little SELF knowledge isnt going to be very good in psych? ya think?

Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.

Dear Lamazeteacher,

The outcome was fine for all. Sadly, sometimes people just aren't cut out for a certain thing or area and do not recognize it and there ids no kind way to end things when this happens usually.

What I don't understand is, this girl made it through nursing school, so she must be cut out for something. You don't make it through 4 yrs. of nursing school and not know something-she knew enough to pass her class and clinicals-Has anyone taken the time to understand that?:confused: I'm with Lamazeteacher, I route for the underdog because I used to be one. I remember seeing a time where my preceptor said I was "dangerous" for overlooking an allergy, which in turn caused no harm to the pt. I suppose every preceptor out there has never made a mistake....Keep dreaming!!! At the time I was new and making mistakes and, I had a lot of people who kept doubting whether I would make it and they did not support me. Now 16 yrs. later, I'm the nurse who can work anywhere in the hospital-floor, Neuro ICU, CCU, CVICU, etc. I've also done speeches on stroke prevention, teach ACLS and PALS, and have been in numerous charge nurse roles. That's not bad for the underdog!!!!!!:p:p. I might add, I didn't do it with a whole line of support from my fellow co-workers, it was out of sheer diligence and the desire to prove everyone wrong. In my opinion, if you're going to take the responsibility of being a preceptor, be a preceptor and help others instead of buddying up with your "girlfriend" and stamping out the underdog!!!!:down:Anytime I've precepted someone, I've always looked back on the days when my "preceptor's":down:didn't believe in me and I swore I'd do a better job and I did.:smokin:

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
i had presumed your post to be tongue in cheek, after all, someone with so little SELF knowledge isnt going to be very good in psych? ya think?

Well, she'd have something in common with her patients, who escape reality by going into a pathological mental state in an avoidance strategy.......:p

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