Voluntary Euthanasia

[GARY_FL_NURSE]

I think one of the cruelest things we do is let patients lay in nursing home beds without the legal ability to terminate their own lives. I'd be interest in what other nurses think of this.

If you ask active people who are in their 40s and alert and you say to them "when you get older and you lose the capacity to know your surroundings and you no longer recognize your family members, and if you reach a point where someone has to change your brief in a bed or feed you your meals, would you prefer to live your life like that or would you prefer someone terminate your life painlessly and peacefully?"

What do you think most people's response would be???

Mine would be termination of my life! But guess what that is against the law in most states.

I'd be interested in knowing what other nurses think about this. We get trained over and over again about abuse. Well to me, the biggest abuse we commit is we do not allow Voluntary Euthanasia over laying in a soiled brief in a nursing home bed where we can't even feed ourselves anymore. Voluntary Euthanasia is illegal in all states and PAD is allowed only in Washington, Oregon, Montana, and Vermont.

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

BTDT, I'm sorry you had to do that. We had to do that for a grandmother that I dearly loved. It was one of the hardest things in the world, but she was suffering.

I'm dealing with som serious illnesses, and while my faith opposes euthanasia, it's what I would want if things get bad for me again. I have a very detailed advanced directive, and my family knows its contents and agree with my wishes.

We can do a lot to make people comfortable in their last days, but it isn't always perfect.

Thank you. Here's hoping you stay well!

You have addressed the issue of faith and euthanasia. I had not thought of that. Certainly would add to the confusion.

I only have faith in myself.. and the creator. Organized religion should not have an opinion regarding my death.

But... that's another thread.

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

A little off topic, but I'm just wondering... If a pt does physician assisted suicide, does it disqualify their family to receive any life insurance benefits for the patient, as can sometimes happen in suicide cases?

Entirely up to the way the policy is written. Most policies will pay if suicide occurs one year from inception.

[Debilpn23]

I'm not in favor of someone suffering. I'm not in favor of people being hopelessly (and expensively) kept alive on machines for just a few more days.

I am in favor of withdrawal of care and believe that everyone has the right to end their suffering when they wish.

I am not, however, in favor of the patient involving someone else (me) in ending his or her suffering in an active manner. Premedicate with benzos and narcotics and withdraw the VAD, the ECMO, the ventilator and the vasoactive drips -- I'm fine with that. But actually euthanizing someone is different, and I don't believe anyone has the right to involve me in that against my will.

Bottom line: People have the right to die when and how they choose, but they do not have the right to involve me in actively killing them.

I totally agree Ruby .

[toomuchbaloney]

As someone who recently had to euthanize my seventeen year old cat, I take great offense to this statement. I did what I did because she was suffering, not because I didn't want to care for her. I had her for seventeen years! I spent a great deal of time caring for her and money on her and in the end, why would I allow her to continue to suffer from an irreversible illness when I could end her suffering forever?

Don't blame me because you were offended.

They make opiates and other pain medications for animals.

You opted to euthanize the cat rather than attempt to make it comfortable using modern pharmacological agents while allowing a natural death. It would seem that we assume that we cannot keep our pets comfortable and so we kill them.

In your case you state it is/was for reason of compassion, like so many of us might. It is also VERY convenient and less expensive to end their lives.

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

Wowza! too much baloney Please re -think your statement.

Not all pain in a human or an animal can be controlled by opiates.

My animal had metz to the spine.. she could no longer walk.. opiates cannot control nerve pain.

We added Neurontin.. she still was in pain and could not walk. I was toileting her with a sling during a Michigan Polar vortex.

"It is also VERY convenient and less expensive to end their lives."?

I spent $ 6000 dollars on my sweet Annie's diagnosis and treatment.. would gladly have spent another 6 grand if it would have helped. The day I put her down.. was one of the saddest days of my life. Spent an additional $ 250 to have her separately cremated.. have her ashes on my mantle with an eternal flame next to her.

I did my best.. it could never be enough.

[SaoirseRN]

Don't blame me because you were offended.

They make opiates and other pain medications for animals.

You opted to euthanize the cat rather than attempt to make it comfortable using modern pharmacological agents while allowing a natural death. It would seem that we assume that we cannot keep our pets comfortable and so we kill them.

In your case you state it is/was for reason of compassion, like so many of us might. It is also VERY convenient and less expensive to end their lives.

Wow. Just wow. How dare you.

[SaoirseRN]

Don't blame me because you were offended.

They make opiates and other pain medications for animals.

You opted to euthanize the cat rather than attempt to make it comfortable using modern pharmacological agents while allowing a natural death. It would seem that we assume that we cannot keep our pets comfortable and so we kill them.

In your case you state it is/was for reason of compassion, like so many of us might. It is also VERY convenient and less expensive to end their lives.

And what is euthanasia but the ultimate comfort measure of modern medicine? You liken it to me taking the cat out behind the barn and shooting her. No. Just no. Maybe opiates could have kept her comfortable, but I know euthanasia did and she died in my arms, purring to the last moment. How is that cruel? How is that wrong? How does that equal me choosing convenience over her comfort? I am literally shaking I am so offended by this.

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

And what is euthanasia but the ultimate comfort measure of modern medicine? You liken it to me taking the cat out behind the barn and shooting her. No. Just no. Maybe opiates could have kept her comfortable, but I know euthanasia did and she died in my arms, purring to the last moment. How is that cruel? How is that wrong? How does that equal me choosing convenience over her comfort? I am literally shaking I am so offended by this.

Deep breaths, Saoirse. I am here with you in spirit. We did what we had to do... it was a most difficult call... we took care of our animal... until the end.

[abbnurse]

.... she died in my arms, purring to the last moment....

So sorry for the loss of your sweet pet! Crying my eyes out over this post. Bless you for loving her so much, and for being brave enough to make that heartbreaking choice.

[toomuchbaloney]

Holy crap people!

Most of us kill our pets when they are terminally ill, it is our culture.

Why is this so upsetting in the context of this thread? I get that we have an emotional attachment to animals but seriously...

No, opiates and other drugs do not always provide the comfort that we would prefer, which is part of the reason that we kill our pets. We believe them to be suffering and we get to decide because there is no law which prohibits our killing of them.

Currently we have laws against killing humans and they are in place for some very good reasons, primarily because some people are simply not trustworthy and will kill for other than altruistic reasons. If we begin to treat our terminally ill elderly and disabled the same way we treat the family dog or cat there will be problems, in my view.

[toomuchbaloney]

Wow. Just wow. How dare you.

How dare I verbalize an opinion that you don't like?

How dare I state something plainly without sugar coating?

Euthanasia is an option, right? Is it wrong that I characterize it as such?

Is it not more convenient and less costly to quickly end a declining life?

[SaoirseRN]

How dare I verbalize an opinion that you don't like?

How dare I state something plainly without sugar coating?

Euthanasia is an option, right? Is it wrong that I characterize it as such?

Is it not more convenient and less costly to quickly end a declining life?

You're entitled to your opinion. What you are not entitled to do is imply that I "killed" my pet because it was "convenient". You don't believe that euthanasia is a kindness and that's fine for you. But you don't get to tell me that my choice was "convenient" because there are no laws preventing it. You weren't there looking at my beloved friend suffering and unhappy and you weren't there to understand that there was absolutely nothing convenient about my choice. So please, believe what you like, but don't apply your own beliefs to the actions of others.