Voluntary Euthanasia

Nurses Activism

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I think one of the cruelest things we do is let patients lay in nursing home beds without the legal ability to terminate their own lives. I'd be interest in what other nurses think of this.

If you ask active people who are in their 40s and alert and you say to them "when you get older and you lose the capacity to know your surroundings and you no longer recognize your family members, and if you reach a point where someone has to change your brief in a bed or feed you your meals, would you prefer to live your life like that or would you prefer someone terminate your life painlessly and peacefully?"

What do you think most people's response would be???

Mine would be termination of my life! But guess what that is against the law in most states.

I'd be interested in knowing what other nurses think about this. We get trained over and over again about abuse. Well to me, the biggest abuse we commit is we do not allow Voluntary Euthanasia over laying in a soiled brief in a nursing home bed where we can't even feed ourselves anymore. Voluntary Euthanasia is illegal in all states and PAD is allowed only in Washington, Oregon, Montana, and Vermont.

Specializes in hospice.

I can't respond any better than RubyVee already did.

I'm not in favor of someone suffering. I'm not in favor of people being hopelessly (and expensively) kept alive on machines for just a few more days.

I am in favor of withdrawal of care and believe that everyone has the right to end their suffering when they wish.

I am not, however, in favor of the patient involving someone else (me) in ending his or her suffering in an active manner. Premedicate with benzos and narcotics and withdraw the VAD, the ECMO, the ventilator and the vasoactive drips -- I'm fine with that. But actually euthanizing someone is different, and I don't believe anyone has the right to involve me in that against my will.

Bottom line: People have the right to die when and how they choose, but they do not have the right to involve me in actively killing them.

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I'm sorry, palliation of symptoms and giving comfort care until nature takes its course is completely different from intentionally overdosing someone with the intent of ending their life.

But how much is too much? I see little difference in giving a round the clock increasing morphine drip to end someone's suffering which is comfort care...and the comfort of care of someone making that decision so their HCP doesn't have to in 5 hours, 5 days, 5 months.....

I am not sure where the idea that a health care provider decides to pour a lethal cocktail down someone's throat with an intent to kill. However, being on the giving end of that last dose of morphine, one could say that I assisted in the dying process. With the intent of peace and comfort, not with a murderous intent.

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Specializes in Emergency Room, Trauma ICU.
I can't respond any better than RubyVee already did.

Then don't do it. But just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean it's not a valid choice for someone else. Just like abortion or hanging blood.

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Specializes in hospice.

Did I say I would stop anyone? As if I could if they're really determined? This is a discussion board. We all express our thoughts and opinions. Some of you seem to think certain viewpoints shouldn't be allowed to exist.

I will never participate in euthanasia. I will fight legislation to permit it, as is my right as a citizen. I would try to talk someone out of it if they asked for my input.

And then if things don't go my way, I'd accept it and find a way to still live my moral code in my own life. And I would never stop advocating my viewpoint in appropriate venues.

What is it about this that's so hard to grasp?

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Specializes in Emergency Room, Trauma ICU.
Did I say I would stop anyone? As if I could if they're really determined? This is a discussion board. We all express our thoughts and opinions. Some of you seem to think certain viewpoints shouldn't be allowed to exist.

I will never participate in euthanasia. I will fight legislation to permit it, as is my right as a citizen. I would try to talk someone out of it if they asked for my input.

And then if things don't go my way, I'd accept it and find a way to still live my moral code in my own life. And I would never stop advocating my viewpoint in appropriate venues.

What is it about this that's so hard to grasp?

What is so hard to grasp about it not being about you but about the pt? The way you present yourself and your opinion gives the impression that you would do everything in your power to stop a pt from dying with dignity, or lecture them about the evilness of their choice. If you don't believe in it that's your business, just don't work for a doc or hospital that does. Just like if you are prolife don't work for planned pregnancy.

And if you honestly believe that you beliefs don't come through in your attitude at work then you are sadly mistaken. Most patients can tell when their nurse disapproves of their lifestyle choices. And that is to the detriment of the pts care.

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Specializes in hospice.

When it's about what *I* am expected to do in *my* work, then it's about me. And I will not violate my own moral beliefs. No one has the right to ask that of me, or of anyone else. I will have to answer for the choices I make, therefore I have to be responsible about making them.

Since I work in hospice, the idea that I am opposed to death with dignity is ridiculous. I just don't agree with you about how that looks.

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Specializes in Emergency Room, Trauma ICU.
When it's about what *I* am expected to do in *my* work, then it's about me. And I will not violate my own moral beliefs. No one has the right to ask that of me, or of anyone else. I will have to answer for the choices I make, therefore I have to be responsible about making them.

Since I work in hospice, the idea that I am opposed to death with dignity is ridiculous. I just don't agree with you about how that looks.

And if you can't do the job you were hired for, then you need to find a new job. And no, it's not about you, it is about the patient, it's always about the patient.

And the fact that you work in hospice with this attitude makes me very sad.

Edit: I just saw that you are a CNA and therefore nothing would be required of you in this regard. Except being kind to a dying person.

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Specializes in hospice.

I live in a state where euthanasia/assisted suicide is not legal, and isn't likely to become so. I am perfectly capable of my job, and will still be when I move up into being a hospice nurse. Thankfully, killing isn't required of hospice nurses.

I actually agree with you about needing to be able to perform all the functions of a job I choose to take. For example, it would be ridiculous for me to work in Oregon with my views. I'm glad I don't live there and and won't move there. It would also be ridiculous for me to apply for or take a job in which I would have to be involved in abortion. So I won't. I also think it's pretty unfair of Christian Science nurses to work in units where they have to hang blood and then refuse to do it. They should find jobs that work with their limitations.

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Specializes in School Nursing.
But how much is too much? I see little difference in giving a round the clock increasing morphine drip to end someone's suffering which is comfort care...and the comfort of care of someone making that decision so their HCP doesn't have to in 5 hours, 5 days, 5 months.....

I am not sure where the idea that a health care provider decides to pour a lethal cocktail down someone's throat with an intent to kill. However, being on the giving end of that last dose of morphine, one could say that I assisted in the dying process. With the intent of peace and comfort, not with a murderous intent.

People seem to assume morphine is what kills these dying patients.. That simply isn't the case most of the time, it's the disease process that kills, not the comfort meds.

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Specializes in hospice.
People seem to assume morphine is what kills these dying patients.. That simply isn't the case most of the time, it's the disease process that kills, not the comfort meds.

Exactly. That's how the nurses I work with explained it to me. Thank you. The morphine may help the person relax enough to "let go" but it's their disease that kills them.

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Specializes in Emergency Room, Trauma ICU.
People seem to assume morphine is what kills these dying patients.. That simply isn't the case most of the time, it's the disease process that kills, not the comfort meds.

Technically the morphine is decreasing their respiratory drive which slows down their breathing and they die. The morphine is given to ease the pain from the disease. If they were not given the morphine they would live longer. So while the disease is why they are getting the drug, don't fool yourself into thinking the drug isn't speeding up the dying process.

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Specializes in School Nursing.
Technically the morphine is decreasing their respiratory drive which slows down their breathing and they die. The morphine is given to ease the pain from the disease. If they were not given the morphine they would live longer. So while the disease is why they are getting the drug, don't fool yourself into thinking the drug isn't speeding up the dying process.

I disagree. An example, hospice pt hadn't had morphine because aside from SOB, didn't appear in pain. A dose of .5 mg morphine recommended by hospice nurse because his respirations were 45 bpm. Dose given and 2 hours later, RR reduced to about 25bpm. No further morphine given. Patient declined and died several hours later that evening. That man was actively dying. The morphine didn't 'speed' up anything, it did what it was designed to do, bring the respirations down from

Morphine isn't administered to STOP breathing. It reduces RR, it doesn't STOP respirations.

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