To all "medical coverage is a privilege" folks:

[dirtyhippiegirl]

You're presented with a five year-old who probably has appendicitis. The family is poor, does not have medical insurance, and they only have a small amount of money to cover diagnostics and treatment of their child. (Any veterinarians on this forum?)

Because of the OMG free market stuff, you can remove the child's appendix for a minimum of...$5,000. However, this child's family cannot afford that and are not eligible for that much credit.

...what do you do? What if you're presented with ten such cases over the course of a month?

[nicurn001]

You answerred the problem re. the national deficit and how you feel the national deficit should be addressed .

You did not answer the question I posed of what is to be done to finance the care of the uninsured ( whether they are uninsured because they do not have the ability to pay for insurance or they choose to be uninsured [ those who have the financial resources to be insured but choose not to get insurance and place their risk upon us]). This is the question any health care refoRm has to address , because while we try to rely upon a private healthcare financing system there will always be those who will be unable or unwilling to pay for insurance , will we provide or withold care to them ?.

[grpman]

My point was not to answer all of your questions, but to give you a "true" BS conserative answer so you could see the difference. The last sentence of my post read, " Now that was BS." Read it again.

[nicurn001]

The thread is titled :- To all "medical coverage is a priveledge " folks , The OP posed a question which boils down to the one I reiterated above , what would those who believe medical coverage is a priveledge do to those who cannot / will not buy health insurance .So far in this thread that question remains unanswered. As I see it the alternatives are withold treatment , fund treatment by the present system ( combination of private and taxpayer ) ,or have charities cover the uninsured ( though I think it highly unlikely charities would be able to cover all the needs .

While it is perfectly OK for the " medical coverage is a priveledge " folks to have that opinion , they need to answer the question of what to do about the uninsured , because if we continue with the present system of healthcare funding the tax payer will always have to cover these cost or watch the providers go bankrupt and /or people dying on the streets due to lack of care .

[Autymn]

Great - I am curious.

"...In the original example above, the 10 kids with appendectomies get their treatment ($50,000 to save 10 young lives) but a 50 year old with bowel cancer does not get the Bevacizumab ( a cancer drug that costs ~$50,000 to the NHS to give for a course of treatment) he needs because the NHS has to balance one 50 year old life against 10 kids..."

Is this a literal, true example? I know here in America, much like some who are expressing opinions in this very thread - there are myths promulgated for the good of those in power. I am curious...if that actually happens in the U.K.? Does the patient literally get an appointment with someone in a suit and get told to his dying face that he will NOT receive the cancer drug...and why....??

I am aware that socialized medicine has its negatives. I know about the lengthy times involved in dealing even with appointments etc.

However, there are those of us in the U.S. who hope that some sort of hybrid between privatized billionaire-owning health empires and what many other countries have put in place related to a socialized core for health care can be formed. That is the goal I put my active support behind.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and giving us information to think further about.

[MeanGreenNurse]

Patient is homeless? This is relevant because where are you going to dc them to? How are they going to follow up after they are dc? How are they going to afford their meds? Do they have transportation? If you know they are homeless you can have time while they are in the hospital to set them up with a sheltor, get med samples for them, and make sure they have access to a pop after dc so they don't end up back in they hospital!

[tewdles, RN]

Our current system discharges homeless people back to the street...

[tewdles, RN]

I believe that food is a basic right and I give money and food accordingly which buttresses my beliefs. Likewise, those in favor of socialized health care should give of their resources and time to help those not insured. With all the support that this topic has, I'm sure that those in favor could raise a lot of money. However, it's often hard to give up gym memberships, new model cars, or a drop in our standard of living. I wish we weren't so hypocritcal, myself included, yet we are.

I agree that many if not most of us may be able to "give" more to charitable organizations to assist those less fortunate. We have, as a society, been trying for some time to bridge the gap medically for those without resources. Many of us have volunteered our professional time or participated in some other fashion right here in the good ol' USA to provide health care to those in need.

What is evident is that the health costs of the society are increasing at a rate that is not sustainable in our current system...even factoring in charitable care. This has nothing to do with just how charitable people are (and whether or not we give up gym memberships, new cars, etc) but has everything to do with ever increasing profit margins for share holders and our current health care delivery model.

Personally, I find the comments directed at supporters of health care reform which suggest that we somehow ONLY want the government to provide care while intimating that we are not willing to engage in the charitable arena simply very ASSUMING in nature and does NOTHING to further the dialog necessary to actually accomplish reform.

Just sayin...

[OCNRN63, RN]

Our current system discharges homeless people back to the street...

How does that work? Does someone wheel them to the front (or back) of the hospital then tell them to leave? Do they come in the patient's room and tell him to leave? Who has to tell the patient to get out? A nurse? An aide?

I'm not trying to be a smart-alec, I just am curious how this is actually carried out.

[nicurn001]

How does that work? Does someone wheel them to the front (or back) of the hospital then tell them to leave? Do they come in the patient's room and tell him to leave? Who has to tell the patient to get out? A nurse? An aide?

I'm not trying to be a smart-alec, I just am curious how this is actually carried out.

I would guess in the usual way, when a patient is told they are fit for discharge , they are discharged in the same manner as they are now .Honestly I to am not trying to be a smart -alec either , however healthcare is financed I would have thought the discharge procedure would be unchanged .

[tewdles, RN]

How does that work? Does someone wheel them to the front (or back) of the hospital then tell them to leave? Do they come in the patient's room and tell him to leave? Who has to tell the patient to get out? A nurse? An aide?

I'm not trying to be a smart-alec, I just am curious how this is actually carried out.

The hospital will even offer to call you a cab...sometimes they will even pay the cab and give them the address of a homeless shelter in the community.

[rkealy, BSN]

Here is my 5 cents (inflation ya know). People should be responsible for their own well being. The reason why health care is so expensive is not because of profit...its because of third payer systems. Spending other peoples money (currently insurance) makes is less painful to go to the MD or ER for a stubbed toe 5 days after you stubbed it because you don't want to go to work in the am. It is also the reason why supplies cost so much. Much like the crazy inflation of tuition rates. The ease in which you can get govt money for college encourages the colleges to then increase the cost. Basic economics, basic inflation. The same has occured in healthcare. Get rid of a third party system....prices will come down. Just look at the discounts facilities give the insurance companies and even deeper discounts they give private pay patients. Those that TRULY cannot afford will get charitable care without govt interference. Americans GIVE more than any other country and will continue to give more. But those riding the system without concequence are beginning to become a greater percentage than ever. The govt demands equal treatment for all thats a joke now...the rich will always get better care no matter what. You think Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro or Russian Prime Minister goes to the local community hospital:) AND what about those who abuse thier body willingly and frequently with repercussion. Do we continue to turn a blind eye? Less govt interference would allow facilities to make decisions on a case by case basis. Not about emergency care but about elective care. Again just my 5 cents

[nicurn001]

rkealy , I have in the past been accussed of looking at the world with rose tinted glasses , that is what you are doing , you are looking back to the time before the present insurance / taxation finaced model of healthcare existed , if it had been as good as you envision there would have been no desire in the populace for it to have been replaced .The free market in combination with charitable care was never able to provide care for all who NEEDED healthcare , so people were dying , or bankrupting their families to pay for their healthcare .I do not expect all to have the same amenities in the healthcare they recieve but feel that all who can afford to should be paying into the system to finance healthcare .

We come at this probably from opposite wings of the political spectrum , but lets accept that ALL who can afford to finance their own healthcare ( whether from their own savings or insurance ) should do so , those who have valid reasons for being unable to finance their healthcare should still have access to needed care .

As an aside do you feel the same about all insurance ie. it raises the prices of meeting the cost of covering the liability insured ? , and you don't like paying for the poor decisions / actions of others of others ?.Are you self insured for vehicular risks , damage to your home etc.?.