Is Health Care a Right? - page 9

Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking... Read More

  1. by   TNcanNURSE
    If fred is having a seious emergency then fred get emergency tx. Look at the signs in any and all US ER's and you'll see a sign that advised you of that right.

    If someone is truly indigent then they will qualify for Medicare/aid. If not then what would be the reason that they would be turned down from this insurance?

    If they can't qualify for gov't assistance of some form then they are probably able bodied individuals who could take on a full time job that will provide them with insurance. A factory will hire any warm bodied individual that can fill the spot. Definitely not a very glamorous job, but everyone has to make their own decisions. If someone would prefer to sit at the house and not get a job then that is their choice......Another type of job that does provide full benefits would be nursing homes.........From my experience most of them will hire anything and keep them until the get tired of working.
  2. by   OzNurse69
    Originally posted by TNcanNURSE
    If someone is truly indigent then they will qualify for Medicare/aid. If not then what would be the reason that they would be turned down from this insurance?
    I don't know -- you tell me! That was my question -- I'm not from your country so don't know the ins & outs of your healthcare system -- I'm trying to learn here! So there is actually a publicly funded backup system which covers those who don't have access to private health insurance?

    Oh, one more question -- does everyone who is employed automatically get private health cover? Or are there some in low-paying jobs who don't have insurance included as part of their salary package?

    Originally posted by TNcanNURSE
    If fred is having a seious emergency then fred get emergency tx. Look at the signs in any and all US ER's and you'll see a sign that advised you of that right.
    ...and having never been to the US, let alone inside a US ED, I have never seen such a sign -- if I had, I wouldn't have asked the question, would I??
  3. by   Q.
    What would happen to Fred is he would be treated, no holes barred, to save his life. If he does not qualify for Medicare/Medicaid and does not have insurance nor can he pay, unfortunately the hospital eats that cost. Which is precisely why 2 hospitals in Milwaukee went bankrupt. They saw primarily Title 19 and people who couldn't pay. The expensive ICU stays, etc got just too expensive for the hospital to continue to write off.
  4. by   OzNurse69
    Really?? So (and this may seem like an obvious question, but humour me, ok?) why doesn't the US govt impose a levy/tax to cover people like this? Someone has to pay, obviously, but why should the cost be left to the hospital? -- oh, other than the fact that no administration likes to impose new taxes because they will be seen as unpopular -- but surely there is room for adjustment in the budget to cover such events?
  5. by   OzNurse69
    Oops, double post -- sorry!!
    Last edit by OzNurse69 on Jan 20, '03
  6. by   sunnygirl272
    Originally posted by OzNurse69


    Oh, one more question -- does everyone who is employed automatically get private health cover? Or are there some in low-paying jobs who don't have insurance included as part of their salary package?
    no, not everyone who is employed has health insurance....
  7. by   sanakruz
    I believe those hospitals went bankrupt much like Enron and Kmart.

    No there's no back up system Oznurse69- One will be sent a bill.Yeah One would receive tx in a diabetic coma. Wouldn't it make more sense to tx this poor individual prior to the emergency.
    Hasn't this question been asked already by a thoughtful poster (as opposed to the sanctimonius shyt disturber)
    Where was the help for supplies like lancets and test strips mot to mention meds?
    No not all folks who work are offered health insurance.
    We have already been offered solutions like a payroll tax by a thoughtful poster previously.
    I dont care if a hospital is solvent or not. Do you? This is not why I got into nursing to worry about some fatcats stock portfolio!!! I do care If a fellow human whom I am in no postion to judge dies. Did you see the post about the inmates dead baby? I have never seen such an insensitive and FRIGHTENING post on this board! JUDGEMENTAL AND SANCTIMONIUS!
    With that those of you with the stomach for this pap can go on. I'm giong to clean out the fridge because a leopard does not change it's spots Suzy true form has been revealed. GOODBYE
  8. by   maureeno
    not only do all employeers not offer health insurance, the percentage that do is decreasing. in fact many small business owners say they are being squeezed out of offering coverage. meanwhile the drug company SmithKlineGlaxo will no longer being making its drugs available to Canandian pharmacies who fill American perscriptions; many Americans have been treking to Canada or using the internet to obtain their medicines at sometimes half the cost for the same drugs in the USA.
  9. by   Venti Cappucino
    Actually, in the USA, quite a few jobs do not provide benefits these days (Thankfully, some still do).

    From what I've seen, the worst hit are the clerical and administrative office workers.

    Just as an example, many companies these days have laid off their clerical staff and hired temps, thru agencies, and keep them on a semi-permanent basis. Not all temp agencies offer benefits, and of those that do, it's not uncommon for a temp to be laid off or suddenly have a week or two without an assignment, right before benefits kick in.
  10. by   Gromit
    Originally posted by OzNurse69
    Really?? So (and this may seem like an obvious question, but humour me, ok?) why doesn't the US govt impose a levy/tax to cover people like this? Someone has to pay, obviously, but why should the cost be left to the hospital? -- oh, other than the fact that no administration likes to impose new taxes because they will be seen as unpopular -- but surely there is room for adjustment in the budget to cover such events?
    Well, to those of us working and living in the States, we believe our tax burdon is already excessive (there is NO reason for the government to automatically grab 1/3 of the paycheck (before you even get a cent deposited, and THATS for the LOWER end of middleclass like myself), and then everything you buy or do, is ALSO taxed.

    I know that to other countries, this amount of taxation is low. I know this, and understand this (I lived in Europe for 6 years, not on a base, but in public, went to their schools, etc. Seville, Spain, in the early 70s). However, OUR government, and the documents upon which it was founded and the limitations imposed on (the government) specify what role it plays in our lives. Basically, maintenance of the underpinnings of civilization (law enforcement, etc, defense -i.e. the military, and so forth). It does not specify who will grow food, and how much they will grow. The difference here, is that we are supposed to have the freedom to grow, make companies, employ others and chase our dreams. We were NEVER founded to take care of everyone who wanted it.

    Our country is second to none when it comes to charity. More money, food, supplies, etc. is donated to our contrymen, and that of other countries than any other country. The difference is, it is our CHOICE to donate. Many here do not approve of the government just taking it, and supplying it (redistribution of wealth) to others who just want it. Socialized, universal, when healthcare is involved, its very similar. I do not feel I should be forced to pay for whatever you want to be treated for.

    with medicare/medicaid we have a 'safetynet' for those who CANNOT pay, but its not a complete safetynet. I'm sorry, but I absolutely do not believe in 'free' healthcare for all (after all, it is NOT free. its just paid for by someone else).


    This does not work nearly as well as others may like to believe, in those countries that have it. Many of them (if not all) have waiting lists for your ailments. I have cousins in England who described being put on waiting lists for something as simple as a cataract surgery, only to finally reach the front of the line, to realize that their eye is no longer salvageable.

    Our system is way far from perfect. However, the freedom of those to research and chase their desires, has paid off in many new techniques and therapies.

    I do not have the answer, but I don't believe in pushing people ahead when I have to work full-time, and go to school full-time, along with the usual price of living, just to get ahead.
    NOBODY is paying my way. I do it myself. I'm not alone.

    SANAKRUZ: I have no doubt of the mismanagement of hospitals, just like other companies. However, they DO have to swallow a large chunk of bills (which in turn, increases OUR costs as patients who DO pay their bills -yes I have been one). However, while I don't care about the paychecks of the fat-cats that run the show, I know that no hospital at all, means no work for me, and no treatment for my patients. You may hate the institution, but you have to be realistic. Not every big company is an Enron or Kmart.
    Last edit by Gromit on Jan 20, '03
  11. by   Sally_ICURN
    Originally posted by OzNurse69
    So what happens to Fred, who has no insurance, and collapses with an MI in the street?
    Fred gets a scoop and run to the nearest ED.
    Fred's life is saved.

    Fred has a job, but with no health insurance benefits. Maybe Fred is a single father and supports a family of three including himself living just above the poverty level and just barely makes ends meet paycheck to paycheck with his income. Like a lot of people do here.

    He applies for medicare/medicaid or whatever is offered by his federal and state governments to help pay for the cost of his illness.

    He is denied assistance because he makes $.50 more an hour than is deemed "in need" of that assistance.

    Fred's on his own with this.

    Fred receives the bill from the hospital, but cannot pay the bill, even in small increments it would take him more than a lifetime.

    Fred may claim bankruptcy or simply not pay and the hospital eats the charges.

    The hospital eating the charges is a problem and that's another reason why healthcare delivery MUST change in this country. I have no problem with hospitals that are not for profit, it's the for-profit healthcare corporations that screw everything up.

    If Fred were insured by one of these corps., it's quite possible that his insurer might try to deny payment to the hospital that saved Fred's life because it was not part of their group or in their "network" of hospitals.

    Why doesn't the government impose a levy/tax? Because the people here who can make ends meet a little more comfortably than Fred are tired of being taxed up the wazoo for everything from a-z.

    ~Sally

    and btw, please don't get the idea that all Americans who receive public assistance are sitting on their butts at home and just enjoying the freebies.
    Last edit by Sally_ICURN on Jan 20, '03
  12. by   fergus51
    I maintain that the taxes Americans ALREADY pay could be reallocated into public health and other programs to deal with this problem. I mean George W Bush is certain we all pay enough to give us big tax breaks. The only logical reason is that he thinks the gov't can lose BILLIONS of tax dollars and still be able to provide the services it needs to. So why can't that go into health care access, at least for all children? (Cause I don't care how much you all love to toss the words "personal responsibility" around in a debate like this, a child has no responsibility for his/her financial situation)
  13. by   Q.
    Originally posted by sanakruz
    I believe those hospitals went bankrupt much like Enron and Kmart.


    And what facts are you basing this on? Are you a native of Milwaukee?

    Did you see the post about the inmates dead baby? I have never seen such an insensitive and FRIGHTENING post on this board! JUDGEMENTAL AND SANCTIMONIUS!
    With that those of you with the stomach for this pap can go on. I'm giong to clean out the fridge because a leopard does not change it's spots Suzy true form has been revealed. GOODBYE
    If I recall, I stated I don't wish to be flamed for my opinion, but it appears you are doing so anyways. Perhaps I think you are frightening for promoting life at all costs, and doing nothing about that life behind the closed doors of your comfortable home. Are you out passing out sandwiches to the abandoned and homeless children? Or are you simply passing judgement on those who simply feel that children are not an entitlement? Seems to me the latter.
    Yes, my true form has been revealed. I adore children, and feel that way too many people view children as "rights" rather than human beings who deserve to be loved and conceived for reasons other than because "I can."
    Now please don't insult me for my opinions or pass any more judgement. If you don't agree with my opinion, say so. But don't turn insulting over opinions because I guarantee you, yours aint all that worthy either.
    Last edit by Susy K on Jan 21, '03

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