I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

Tessaprn · Mar 26, 2009

This is a very hot and debatable topic. I suppose on paper universal health care sounds good. I do not wish to have my taxes increased. I believe if people would take responsibility for themselves instead letting others do it for them this problem could be improved. I believe health care is a right for every American citizen. If we stop supporting every other country first we would have the funds for our own health care.

Universal health care is not the answer. How are we nurses going to like having our salaries modified by the government. Does anyone think that doctors will take to spending years and a bit of money becoming physicians to have the government not pay them enough to pay off their student loans. England and France have spoken out about how bad universal health care is and they had it for years.

As for Michael Moore other than bashing the United States government and making money from his propaganda projects what has he offered to the country?

Jolie, BSN · Mar 26, 2009

10 surprising facts about american health care

fact no. 1: americans have better survival rates than europeans for common cancers.

fact no. 2: americans have lower cancer mortality rates than canadians.

fact no. 3: americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.

fact no. 4: americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than canadians.

fact no. 5: lower income americans are in better health than comparable canadians.

fact no. 6: americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in canada and the u.k.

fact no. 7: people in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed.

fact no. 8: americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than canadians.

fact no. 9: americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in canada or the u.k.

fact no. 10: americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.

conclusion. despite serious challenges, such as escalating costs and the uninsured, the u.s. health care system compares favorably to those in other developed countries.

full article: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

Valerie Salva, BSN, RN · Mar 26, 2009

I know an RN who does not have health ins (agency nurse). She was bitten by a mosquito in 2007 and ended up with viral encephalopathy. She now owes close to $30,000. for the hospital bill. She has had her very modest house transferred to a relative's ownership so that she does not lose it.

I worked at a for-profit LTC a few years ago, which did not offer health ins to its' employees. A CNA needed an emergency appendectomy and ended us losing her apt and car because of the costs. She would have been out on the street, but the wound-care nurse and his wife took her in.

I was injured on-the-job at this facility. They refused to pay for my trip to the ER, and they got away with it. I contacted a lawyer and he told me I would win the case but added "Do you really think it would be worth it to pay me thousands of dollars to get your $500. ER bill paid?"

I paid the bill myself to protect my credit rating.

I currently have a co-worker who has had sudden, severe onset of Crohn's Disease. She needs to have part of her bowel removed, and will be out of work for some time. She is a single mother of two small children, and has used up all the FMLA she is eligable for. The company is in the process of transferring her to per diem status, and she will lose her health ins and her income.

I had a pt a couple of years ago, who reached the lifetime maximum on her husband's insurance benefits through his employer. This happily married couple got divorced so his wife could qualify for Medicaide. The couple and their son were devastated by this.

All of the above situations could have been averted if we had universal coverage in the US.

Valerie Salva, BSN, RN · Mar 26, 2009

10 surprising facts about american health care
fact no. 1: americans have better survival rates than europeans for common cancers.
fact no. 2: americans have lower cancer mortality rates than canadians.
fact no. 3: americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.
fact no. 4: americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than canadians.
fact no. 5: lower income americans are in better health than comparable canadians.
fact no. 6: americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in canada and the u.k.
fact no. 7: people in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed.
fact no. 8: americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than canadians.
fact no. 9: americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in canada or the u.k.
fact no. 10: americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.
conclusion. despite serious challenges, such as escalating costs and the uninsured, the u.s. health care system compares favorably to those in other developed countries.
full article: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

sorry, but both canadians and the french have longer life spans that americans.

don't forget- the us health care system ranks #37 out of all industrialized nations.

leadesign · Mar 26, 2009

I couldn't help but notice the ten so-called "facts" comparing health care of the US, Canada, France, and the UK, seem to be from a group called the Heritage Foundation (The Foundry ) whose mission is 'to promote conservative public policies...' I believe this information differs from other reports like the WHO. But then this list of "Facts" rings familiar doesn't it? Kinda like the WOMD "Facts" of the previous REGIME.

I can't for the life of me understand why people in the healthcare field would want anything but the best for mankind. We went into a career of caring for people didn't we? Instead I hear comments such as; "if you can't afford it (insurance) then you don't deserve it... or those people (an elderly couple on medicare) are leaching off the system."

And what if we don't provide care for immigrants, how will you feel when you or your family contract one of their exotic diseases like that drug-resistant form of TB?

Were you taught to determine who is deserving of care? What would a compassionate person do?

Honnête et Sérieux · Mar 26, 2009

People in the USA rarely complain about their socialized police force, or socialized fire department, or socialized roads, or socialized garbage collection, or socialized water company, or socialized millitary, or...
dig
who's thanking gawd we didn't privatize social security a few years back.

A disclaimer on my last social security statement; "by 2041, the payroll taxes collected will be enough to pay only about 75 percent of scheduled benefits." In spite of that, they are still deducting 12.4% from my paycheck, so at this point in time, my private retirement benefits are STILL offering me a better return on investment than Soc. Sec...so no...I am not "thanking gawd" that the gov't refuses to give me a choice in the matter and continues to screw me over.

Next, our police, fire, and garbage services are not even close to socialized. For every ONE cop on a tax-funded payroll, there are TWO MORE people employed to provide provide private security to US citizen's and property. Additionally, not everyone gets the same coverage when it comes to police departments. Some municipalities are covered by just the state police, and may wait hours for someone to respond to a call. Another municipality may be double-covered with state police, and city/burough/township police. Another can have both of those, and then you can add county police AND/OR the sheriff's dept. Where I live, I have all four of those where I live, and the business park across the street ALSO employs private security 24/7. No...not really socialized.

Fire dept? Not even a remotely valid example. Around 70% of firefighters in the US are VOLUNTEER, and a substantial number of these fire departments are NOT tax-funded. Many operated on fundraisers and generate revenue by engaging in FREE MARKET activities such as running a social club, bingo, ambulance services, and by billing INSURANCE for fighting house fires and conducting vehicle rescues. Additionally, quite a few private corporations operate their own private fire deparments because they cannot rely on local fire services. So do you think we should resort to a health-care system where 70% of the providers are volunteer and run bake sales and bingo on the side to generate operating revenue?

And I don't know who is receiving socialized garbage services, but a private company collects my trash, and I pay a monthly fee directly to them (at the same rate as everyone else in my community), and not to any tax municipality. The also have the privilege to stop picking up my trash, or to fine me if I don't put it out according to policy. I also pay the same as everyone else in my city for water, or when I drive on a toll road. That doesn't seem to be what UHC advocates are proposing, so I don't know why these examples are improperly presented as examples of 'socalism.'

And as far as our "socialized roads," expect a change. Cities across the country are dealing with escalating transportation problems that "the gov't" can't seem to fix or address. We are pushing so much for fuel alternatives, we can expect the gov't to realize that they didn't think this issue through regarding the loss in collecting revenue related to gas taxes to fund our highways, and for them to look for options, and one of them includes an expansion of private roads...something COMMON in EUROPE...a region often celebrated for it's social programs.

Our military is the only somewhat valid example, but the reality is that the military does not provide individualized protection. They protect a COUNTRY, so it's not rational to think that there is any other way to do it. It's not possible for them to provide MORE or LESS protection from a foriegn threat to rich people vs. poor people. In the event of a threat, they all would need EQUAL protection, unlike healthcare, where some people need only routine care and others need expensive surgery and therapies.

allnurses Guide · Mar 26, 2009

I couldn't help but notice the ten so-called "facts" comparing health care of the US, Canada, France, and the UK, seem to be from a group called the Heritage Foundation (The Foundry ) whose mission is 'to promote conservative public policies...' I believe this information differs from other reports like the WHO. But then this list of "Facts" rings familiar doesn't it? Kinda like the WOMD "Facts" of the previous REGIME.
I can't for the life of me understand why people in the healthcare field would want anything but the best for mankind. We went into a career of caring for people didn't we? Instead I hear comments such as; "if you can't afford it (insurance) then you don't deserve it... or those people (an elderly couple on medicare) are leaching off the system."
And what if we don't provide care for immigrants, how will you feel when you or your family contract one of their exotic diseases like that drug-resistant form of TB?
Were you taught to determine who is deserving of care? What would a compassionate person do?

The NCPA:

http://www.ncpa.org/about/

Valerie Salva, BSN, RN · Mar 26, 2009

Herring RN- I love your sig line. Words to live by.

Honnête et Sérieux · Mar 26, 2009

I couldn't help but notice the ten so-called "facts" comparing health care of the US, Canada, France, and the UK, seem to be from a group called the Heritage Foundation (The Foundry ) whose mission is 'to promote conservative public policies...' I believe this information differs from other reports like the WHO. But then this list of "Facts" rings familiar doesn't it? Kinda like the WOMD "Facts" of the previous REGIME.
I can't for the life of me understand why people in the healthcare field would want anything but the best for mankind. We went into a career of caring for people didn't we? Instead I hear comments such as; "if you can't afford it (insurance) then you don't deserve it... or those people (an elderly couple on medicare) are leaching off the system."
And what if we don't provide care for immigrants, how will you feel when you or your family contract one of their exotic diseases like that drug-resistant form of TB?
Were you taught to determine who is deserving of care? What would a compassionate person do?

The WHO methodology is flawed; there is a reason why they stopped generating their "rankings" list.

And I have NEVER heard anyone say, "if you can't afford insurance, then you don't deserve it," and I don't believe you ever have...that's my opinion. And I don't know of anyone who thinks that an elderly couple who has paid into medicare taxes ALL THEIR LIVES are somehow leeches. These are hyperbolic emotional claims that are not valid and don't contribute anything valid to the discussion.

There is a limit. Money and healthcare services are a finite resource. We simply can't afford to treat every diseased immigrant who breaks the law and enters our country illegally. If they can access a socialized healthcare system, then they can be deported to their home country where they can obtain healthcare according to the "compassion" and "caring" of their home country. Do you think those countries suddenly become gracious hosts and providers of healthcare to Americans who might fall ill after illegally entering crossing their borders?

Valerie Salva, BSN, RN · Mar 26, 2009

Visitors to countries with socialized medicine are treated free of charge when they enter these countries legally. I don't know about illegally.

A friend of my husband's required an emergency appendectomy while on sabbatical in Germany. He says the care he received was wonderful- and 100% free.

Honnête et Sérieux · Mar 26, 2009

a few "underinsured"?? what of the 47 million americans without any insurance at all?
this is a false number; there are not 47 million uninsured americans. millions of people improperly included in this number are not americans, millions more are people who can afford insurance, but choose to exercise the american tradition of choice and opt out, millions more are people who are eligible for public programs, but have never accessed them because they are too lazy or they simply haven't needed them, and millions more are people who are simply uninsured (again by choice), because they forego formal coverage while they change jobs.
again: health insurance is not health care---that's where we "underinsured" come in, because even though we pay hundreds of dollars per month in premiums, there are bean-counters who have never been to medical or nursing school making life-or-death decisions...........and denying us procedures, drugs, medical equipment, and just about everything they can deny us.
a socialized sytem just ensures that everyone is underinsured instead of just a few.
i am completely serious about this: if we do not yank this evil weed out of our healthcare "system" by its roots and destroy it, no one but the independently wealthy will be able to access medical services in another 20 years. we nurses will be catering to a vip population while we ourselves do without health care. is that what the free-marketers want?
oh please. enough with the hyperbole. a free market guarantees that there will always be the level of healthcare that people are willing to pay for.
me, i'd rather put that $500 bucks into a system that will at least cover part of my medications (one of which is $150 for a 30-day supply, which i'm also paying for out-of-pocket). i don't care if the rich want to buy extra health care---i think they should, if they want it, and it should be made available to them. but every citizen should be able to access basic health services, as we do fire and police protection, schools, clean water, and other "government" services that we enjoy because we are citizens and we pay taxes to support them.

i repeat myself; the majority (66%) of "police protection" in this country is private. 70% of firefighters are volunteers who don't receive benefits for being volunteer firefighters. our schools are atrocious, and in countries such as france and the uk (who are often celebrated as examples of what we should emulate), water services are mostly privatized.

LaughingRN · Mar 26, 2009

A friend of my husband's required an emergency appendectomy while on sabbatical in Germany. He says the care he received was wonderful- and 100% free.

That's part of the problem with the idea of universal health care

It wasn't free, nothing in this world is free, somebody had to pay for it...