Come to America to Have your Baby!! - page 5

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  1. by   ann945n
    Its not so much that I would want the money going to illegals to go to worthy government programs for needy american citizen (we all know thats a pipe dream) But I am ANGRY when i look at my pay check and see how much money they take out and know that illegals are getting that money for free. They dont pay taxes yet get to have free health care and schooling for their kids. Im sorry but im not paying for non-americans. That money should only be for our citizens why is this so hard to understand? To me its no different then robbery supported by our government since they wont do anything about it. Being born here and becoming a citizen was a law we needed when we were building our nation, now thats done lets get rid of out dated laws. Is anyone aware that US population growth is only from immigration, not births from citizens. so food for thought and lets not even get started on the language issue, having lived in germany for some time i didnt go there to live and not learn their native language, talk about respect
  2. by   ann945n
    Quote from adrienurse
    Why is people coming in from other countries a bad thing? In case you haven't noticed birth rates in North America are down and the senior population will have a hard time being supported by working age people in the next 30-40-50 years.

    I'd like to meet those of you who are american and whose ancestors DIDN'T come from another country.
    I dont think anyone here is against LEGAL immigration, that is a beautiful thing, illegal immigration is the problem.
  3. by   hoping2b
    I guess I must be in the minority by doing things the other way round. A number of years ago I was in the scary position of having to leave California, being more than eight and a half months pregnant, and recently uninsured - to go to a much kinder health system on the other side of the Atlantic to give birth. The thought never entered my mind about my baby losing his US citizenship, definitely not a priority. I still find it strange that there are so many millions of uninsured people in the richest nation in the world?!?
  4. by   lindarn
    Quote from ann945n
    Its not so much that I would want the money going to illegals to go to worthy government programs for needy american citizen (we all know thats a pipe dream) But I am ANGRY when i look at my pay check and see how much money they take out and know that illegals are getting that money for free. They dont pay taxes yet get to have free health care and schooling for their kids. Im sorry but im not paying for non-americans. That money should only be for our citizens why is this so hard to understand? To me its no different then robbery supported by our government since they wont do anything about it. Being born here and becoming a citizen was a law we needed when we were building our nation, now thats done lets get rid of out dated laws. Is anyone aware that US population growth is only from immigration, not births from citizens. so food for thought and lets not even get started on the language issue, having lived in germany for some time i didnt go there to live and not learn their native language, talk about respect
    Has it occurred to anyone, that one of the reasons that US birthrate has dropped so much, is due to the high cost of living, health care, the amount of money that it costs to raise a child from birth to 18? The cost of higher education that our children are having to pay to get a college education? And that these are costs the illegal immigrants are getting for free from the US tax- payer?

    I, for one, wanted baby #3 badly. When I looked at the cost of being on unpaid maternity leave for three months, daycare, other expenses related to raising a child, (i.e, saving for another child's college education), I was almost glad that mother nature took care of the problem, and I was unable to have another one.

    We are sacrificing what should be our next generation, because our money is going to provide free health care, education, and living expenses, for illegal immigrants. It is my guess, that situation is occurring in other nations, as well. I might add, that many countries in Europe, significantly limit who may become a citizen, and who may not. Generations of immigrants, are not granted citizenship, and I believe that France, and parts of Scandinavia, are examples. England has very generous immigration laws, and are having many problems because the Muslim population doesn not want to assimilate. In Australia, I just read recently, that the government informed the Muslim residents, that if they want to live under Islamic law, they have to leave the country. My kind if givernment.

    We would have all have enough workers for the next generation (of our own), if this illegal subsidizing was not going on. My $0.02.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  5. by   SharonH, RN
    Quote from lindarn
    Has it occurred to anyone, that one of the reasons that US birthrate has dropped so much, is due to the high cost of living, health care, the amount of money that it costs to raise a child from birth to 18? The cost of higher education that our children are having to pay to get a college education? And that these are costs the illegal immigrants are getting for free from the US tax- payer?

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington

    The reason it has not occurred to anyone that illegal immigration is behind falling birth rates is because it's preposterous. A change in values and American culture and European cultures is the cause of falling birth rates, study after study has shown that. Since our economy is no longer based on agriculture, there is no need to have large families. Economic and career opportunities are causing women to delay starting their families. The availability of birth control gives women choices of how many children to have.

    As for the financial costs of having children, you're right it has gone up considerably. I grew up in the 70s in a 3 bedroom ranch home. I had two siblings. My sister and I shared a room. We had only 2 TVs in the house and my parents each owned a modest vehicle. Nowadays, people raise their kids with the expectation that each child must have their own room with a TV and a computer, and a cellphone. Families take their kids on extravagant vacations like cruises and trips to Hawaii. I see teens now driving SUVs and nice sedans to school. Compare that to the Chevette that I shared with my brother as a teen. And let's not forget expensive summer camps, karate, dance and music lessons. It's no wonder people can't afford to have 4, 5, or 6 kids with those type of expenses. I don't see how you can pin that on illegal immigrants.
  6. by   cmaj
    well said Sharon - I hope all the hostile feelings of some nurses don't transcend into the kind of care they are to provide. . . . I am a minority and it is so easy to pin things on illegals who have no voice - instead of "other" minorities - the cost of living has gone up anywhere - I live in Long Island - yes it's expensive to live anywhere - unfortunately the system is flawed - I don't believe in things just being handed out to anyone - blame your goverment - not the people - I truly hope to not come across this attitude or have any of my family members be treated by you - I am a nursing student so I am confused about one thing - so if I LOOK hispanic - do you automatically assume that I'm on welfare & I came to have my baby in the U.S.???
  7. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from cmaj
    well said Sharon - I hope all the hostile feelings of some nurses don't transcend into the kind of care they are to provide. . . . I am a minority and it is so easy to pin things on illegals who have no voice - instead of "other" minorities - the cost of living has gone up anywhere - I live in Long Island - yes it's expensive to live anywhere - unfortunately the system is flawed - I don't believe in things just being handed out to anyone - blame your goverment - not the people - I truly hope to not come across this attitude or have any of my family members be treated by you - I am a nursing student so I am confused about one thing - so if I LOOK hispanic - do you automatically assume that I'm on welfare & I came to have my baby in the U.S.???
    I don't pin anything on the illegals, anything at all. If I were in their situation, I'd be an illegal here, as well.

    No, I blame OUR GOVERNMENT for allowing the situations to occur that encourage the defacto refugee status on our border. By allowing that refugee flood for our own purposes of cheap labor, we have allowed the Mexican gov't the ability to sidestep addressing the problems that cause the disparaties because NOW they have both a steam valve and incoming hard currency.

    Mexico has one of the world's largest oil reserves. Plus, they have the other natural resources that America has. THEY could be a rich nation, as well. But, what need does their gov't have to address reforms for their people when their people conveniently have someplace else to go?

    Why should THEY pay such costs when we will?

    Bottom line, the people in Mexico don't NEED to be refugees in our nation. Their nation has the resources to support themselves. What they NEED is reform at home. Ultimately, our blind eye to immigration only stems the political need to address the poverty in Mexico. By doing so, we serve to entrench that very poverty.

    We aren't doing anybody any favors.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Jan 2, '07
  8. by   OB_RN
    The thread being titled "come to America... caught my eye.
    It is not my intent to be accused of racial profiling-
    I am suggesting, (under the thread title -again-) that there are many reasons why someone from another country would wish to fly in nd give birth.

    BTW- the bill is almost ALWAYS footed by- you guessed it- medicaid.

    Get angry if you like.
    Racial profiling and the medicaid issue aside, what we have here is a real terrorist threat. Those people are patient.They will wait for these kids to grow up. Their children will be able to come and go as they please, do as they please, etc all under the govt's nose because they are CITIZENS.
    Is anyone else concerned????

    Or are you more concerned that I profile my patients?
    PS/ No matter what, I am always a very gracious hostess to my patients, white, black, arabic or other.
  9. by   Euskadi1946
    There are illegal aliens from many countries not just Latin American countries but it seems that when people talk of illegal aliens they are talking about the ones from Latin America especially from Mexico. This thread does not belong in a nursing forum. We all became nurses because we want to help heal the sick and we are patient advocates. However, I certainly do not remember my instructors in nursing school telling us to distinguish between the legal or illegal immigrant patients. We all have the right to a decent life for ourselves and for our children and so does the illegal alien. "If you do it for the least of my brethren, you do it for me."
  10. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from CeCiRN
    There are illegal aliens from many countries not just Latin American countries but it seems that when people talk of illegal aliens they are talking about the ones from Latin America especially from Mexico. This thread does not belong in a nursing forum. We all became nurses because we want to help heal the sick and we are patient advocates. However, I certainly do not remember my instructors in nursing school telling us to distinguish between the legal or illegal immigrant patients. We all have the right to a decent life for ourselves and for our children and so does the illegal alien. "If you do it for the least of my brethren, you do it for me."
    When you are talking about coming here illegally to have a baby, the vast majority of people who do so come from Mexico. It's a matter of proximity and timing.

    Now 'birth tourism': flying in to have your kiddos, that's not per se illegal. It's difficult to get through airport customs illegally.

    I would suppose that there is a third category of those that have babies here on expired visas, but I would think that the intent was to remain here, with birth being incidental to that, not to 'come' here to have a baby.

    But, if the subject is illegally coming here for the purposes to have a baby, Latin America and Mexico specifically is right on point. That's not an unjust generalization.

    As far as every human being entitled to decency, I agree that is true. I just disagree that is strictly America's obligation for those not American. And I disagree that breaking the law in order to birth on our soil makes or should make that baby a citizen. That was not the intent of our Constitution.

    The feudal concept of being bound to the nobles based on locale was actively refuted by our founding fathers. Rightly so.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Jan 2, '07
  11. by   HM2VikingRN
    according to the cia world factbook:
    colombia
    colombian-organized illegal narcotics, guerrilla, and paramilitary activities penetrate all of its neighbors' borders and have created a serious refugee crisis with over 300,000 persons having fled the country, mostly into neighboring states
    idps: 2,900,000 - 3,400,000 (conflict between government and farc; drug wars) (2004)
    guatemala:
    the 1996 signing of peace accords, which ended 36 years of civil war, removed a major obstacle to foreign investment, but widespread political violence and corruption scandals continue to dampen investor confidence. the distribution of income remains highly unequal with perhaps 75% of the population below the poverty line.
    idps: 250,000 (government's scorched-earth offensive in 1980s against indigenous people) 30,000 (hurricane "stan" october 2005) (2005)
    nicaragua:
    nicaragua, one of the western hemisphere's poorest countries, has low per capita income, widespread underemployment, and a heavy external debt burden. distribution of income is one of the most unequal on the globe.
    honduras, one of the poorest countries in the western hemisphere with an extraordinarily unequal distribution of income and massive unemployment
    el salvador
    a 12-year civil war, which cost about 75,000 lives, was brought to a close in 1992
    the trade deficit has been offset by annual remittances from salvadorans living abroad - 16.6% of gdp in 2005 - and external aid.
    mexico
    ongoing economic and social concerns include low real wages, underemployment for a large segment of the population, inequitable income distribution, and few advancement opportunities for the largely amerindian population in the impoverished southern states.

    current situation: mexico is a source, transit, and destination country for persons trafficked for sexual exploitation and labor; while the vast majority of victims are central americans trafficked along mexico's southern border, other source regions include south america, the caribbean, eastern europe, africa, and asia; women and children are trafficked from rural regions to urban centers and tourist areas for sexual exploitation, often through fraudulent offers of employment or through threats of physical violence; the mexican trafficking problem is often conflated with alien smuggling,

    the point of putting this information up is not to bash these countries but to point out that there are significant economic and political forces that in effect are creating political, and economic refugees due to official corruption,extreme concentrations of wealth. ( the us does not have clean hands in regards to latin america from an economic or military standpoint. (school of americas, cia overthrow of allende, etc) but my real point is that wherever there is excessive concentration of wealth, poverty or public/private corruption that the seeds of political/economic instability are sown and that ultimately results in displaced people. (e.g., mexico has a higher concentration of billionaires per capita than western europe.) international poverty is probably the greatest national security issue facing the us.
  12. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA

    In addition, that says NOTHING about a 2 fold test for Citizenship that was adopted ONE HUNDRED YEARS LATER, with a Reconstruction Amendment to the Constitution.

    You are incorrect with this interpretation, but EVEN IF YOU WEREN'T, the 14th Amendment would specifically rebut this interpretaton as it amends the orginal document and therefore, original intent in this matter.

    I'll concede the first point you made about Article 1 Section 9 being primarily about slavery, however, it is still not on point for mulitiple reasons 1. It wasn't the founding fathers intent to address citizenship rules generally with the clause, 2. The limitation ended in 1808, and 3. the 14th Amendment would have controlling authority on the concept of what defines a citizen as it AMENDS the Constitution for this specific purpose.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    At least we agree that the 14th Amendment changed the rules over Congress ability to regulate the Naturalization process. I think that the real difference between us is in the conceptualization and derivation of citizenship. From my point of view Naturalization is the process of choosing to become a citizen while people who are born in the US acquire citizenship by natural right. Afroyim places citizenship as the property of the individual and not of the state. A reasonable argument can be made (see Findlaw) that each time Congress has addressed Naturalization in statute that the inclusion of the "persons born" language is simply a reaffirmation of the accepted meaning of constitutional language.

    I know that you are not a huge fan of the Supreme Court but please remember that the courts are the last line of defense to protect our individual rights and liberties. In the casae of the native born that decision of whether to retain or renounce citizenship has been guaranteed to the individual and the courts have in essence ruled that by definition anyone born in the US is subject to protection/jurisdiction of the law. Ultimately, our constitution was meant to establish protections for the minority from oppression by the majority through either legislative or executive action.
  13. by   SharonH, RN
    Quote from CeCiRN
    There are illegal aliens from many countries not just Latin American countries but it seems that when people talk of illegal aliens they are talking about the ones from Latin America especially from Mexico. This thread does not belong in a nursing forum. We all became nurses because we want to help heal the sick and we are patient advocates. However, I certainly do not remember my instructors in nursing school telling us to distinguish between the legal or illegal immigrant patients. We all have the right to a decent life for ourselves and for our children and so does the illegal alien. "If you do it for the least of my brethren, you do it for me."

    You are so right Ceci. And don't you believe that jazz that a lot of people claim that they don't have a problem with immigrants, it's because they are illegal that they are upset. No, they have a problem with people with a different culture and language than their own coming to this country in large numbers and daring to maintain their cultural identies. That's threatening to a lot of people. Thus the gross exaggeration of the negative effects of having those people come to our countries i.e. Americans can't afford to have babies due to illegal immigration. In recent years, we have had highly visible people be so bold as to say that we need to restrict immigration from non-European countries(read: we want Whites only) and Neil Cavuto saying that white people need to have more babies so as to prevent this country from becoming primarily Hispanic. And of course, there's the ever-popular English-only laws.

    As a nurse, it's disturbing because we have an obligation to provide care to our patients regardless of their race or immigration status. But how can we do that if we believe that the people we are taking care of are taking from us?

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