Cheney would "probably be dead by now" if not for his federally funded health care - page 6

December 7, 2007, 2:58 pm Nurses' Health-Care Ad Takes Aim at Cheney Susan Davis reports on health care. Vice President Dick Cheney would "probably be dead by now" if not for his federally... Read More

  1. by   tntrn
    Quote from mercyteapot
    Yes. I do. The President is more important than the Vice President. The Vice President has the potential to become that important, but it is contingent on becoming the President.

    As for the current 2nd in command, I'd much prefer that he wasn't in office at all. But then, that goes for his boss, too.
    That's pretty obvious. But then, some feel exactly that way about the Pres and VP who came just before these; also about the potentials of next time around.
  2. by   Jolie
    Quote from HM2Viking
    That is exactly the point of the PNHP proposal.
    Quote from HM2Viking post #61 above: Streamlining payment through a single nonprofit payer would save more than $350 billion per year, enough to provide comprehensive, high-quality coverage for all Americans.
    Source: http://pnhp.org/


    If that were "exactly the point of the PNHP proposal", the program would be fully paid by existing funds, not by an additional 9% (or more) of my (and everyone else's) income. Yet PHNP depends upon a (minimum of) 9% income tax, proving that this plan can't be funded in the manner you describe above..
    Last edit by Jolie on Dec 12, '07
  3. by   HM2VikingRN
    you are deliberately missing the very specific point of the pnhp proposal which is:
    the payroll tax would replace all other employer expenses for employees’ health care. the income tax would take the place of all current insurance premiums, co-pays, deductibles, and any and all other out of pocket payments. for the vast majority of people a 2% income tax is less than what they now pay for insurance premiums and in out-of-pocket payments such as co-pays and deductibles, particularly for anyone who has had a serious illness or has a family member with a serious illness.
    source: http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepaye...hp#raise_taxes

    its meant to be a wash. instead of paying insurance premiums you would pay taxes. no net difference in cost is the goal.........
  4. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from HM2Viking
    Its meant to be a wash. Instead of paying insurance premiums you would pay taxes. No net difference in cost is the goal.........
    Except that the idea of a gov't program coming in on time and on budget is an urban myth.

    Just as much a myth or more that 'close enough for gov't work' will provide me with increased efficiency.

    Or, that the gov't will look out for me. Sure, ask anybody in New Orleans about that.

    Does anybody really trust the gov't that much? When it comes to my healthcare, if there's even a ONE PERCENT chance that gov't will operate as it normally does, instead of in this pollyanna world imagined, then I'd just assume the gov't kept its hands off my healthcare.

    See, the very thing about this proposal that is so troublesome is its promises of great, beneficial, cheap, friendly gov't care that can't be tested until AFTER it destroys any alternative.

    But the way you can tell the real scoop: if it's so darn great an idea, why not make it voluntary? If it's so pie-in-the-sky, then why do I have to join, at the point of a gun? That's what I thought.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Dec 13, '07
  5. by   BBFRN
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA

    Give it to the gov't and just watch how a bloated monopoly is constantly overbudget as it sinks to mediocrity.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Isn't that our current problem with managed care?
  6. by   pickledpepperRN
    If Dick Cheney Were Anyone Else, He'd Probably Be Dead By Now
    By Rose Ann DeMoro


    ...Imagine if you had the Vice President's health history. Four heart attacks, quadruple bypass surgery, angioplasty, an implanted defibrillator, and just recently, an emergency procedure to treat an irregular heartbeat.

    Take that chart to Blue Cross, UnitedHealth, or Aetna and try to get coverage or even continued care.
    If you already have one of their policies, they'd probably drop you like a hot potato or raise your premiums - or if you are part of a group plan, your group's premiums - to an amount higher than the national debt.
    Or perhaps they'd just demand you re-pay them for your last bypass surgery because they discovered you once chipped a tooth you'd never disclosed on your application form.

    Not that we're wishing him more misfortune. We just think everyone should be entitled to the same guaranteed, first-class health care that Cheney and other government officials receive today....

    http://www.calnurses.org/media-cente...w.html?print=t
  7. by   Simplepleasures
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Except that the idea of a gov't program coming in on time and on budget is an urban myth.

    Just as much a myth or more that 'close enough for gov't work' will provide me with increased efficiency.

    Or, that the gov't will look out for me. Sure, ask anybody in New Orleans about that.

    Does anybody really trust the gov't that much? When it comes to my healthcare, if there's even a ONE PERCENT chance that gov't will operate as it normally does, instead of in this pollyanna world imagined, then I'd just assume the gov't kept its hands off my healthcare.

    See, the very thing about this proposal that is so troublesome is its promises of great, beneficial, cheap, friendly gov't care that can't be tested until AFTER it destroys any alternative.

    But the way you can tell the real scoop: if it's so darn great an idea, why not make it voluntary? If it's so pie-in-the-sky, then why do I have to join, at the point of a gun? That's what I thought.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    At the point of a gun??I will continue to see a future for our government, anarchy is not a acceptable substitute. We still have the vote, we CAN and should use it to change what we dont like in our OWN government.
  8. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from ingelein
    At the point of a gun??I will continue to see a future for our government, anarchy is not a acceptable substitute. We still have the vote, we CAN and should use it to change what we dont like in our OWN government.
    He was using hyperbole to make a point. He didn't mean a real gun. Just that why do we have to be forced into this universal health care plan?

    Some of us believe there are certain obligations that the gov is responsible for and others, not so much. And taking over health care is not one, imo.

    steph
  9. by   Jolie
    Quote from Baptized_By_Fire
    Isn't that our current problem with managed care?
    It is part of our current problem with private insurers. But at least with the current system, you have a choice, and can find other alternatives for healthcare coverage. That won't be the case with national healthcare.
  10. by   BBFRN
    Quote from Jolie
    It is part of our current problem with private insurers. But at least with the current system, you have a choice, and can find other alternatives for healthcare coverage. That won't be the case with national healthcare.
    Yes we can find other alternatives for health care coverage, but our choices are forced to be made by which one is the most affordable- and all are too expensive. Then you add in the fact that the ones that are cheaper cost less because they cover less. This is one way that access has been decreased. This is also why market competition doesn't work very well when it comes to insurance companies as far as increasing the quality of what they deliver.
    Last edit by BBFRN on Dec 13, '07
  11. by   Simplepleasures
    Quote from stevielynn
    He was using hyperbole to make a point. He didn't mean a real gun. Just that why do we have to be forced into this universal health care plan?

    Some of us believe there are certain obligations that the gov is responsible for and others, not so much. And taking over health care is not one, imo.

    steph
    Stevie, I was well aware that he was using hyperbole, so was I.
  12. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from ingelein
    Stevie, I was well aware that he was using hyperbole, so was I.
    I know . . . .:angel2:


    steph
  13. by   pickledpepperRN
    What choice would a person have if they didn't like their current insurance plan?
    I mean a person who has suffered four myocardial infarctions, the first in his thirties, episodes of a potentially lethal arrythmia requiring an implanted defibrillator, a pacemaker, and still needs cardioversion.

    What are this persons choices?

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