A Call to Action from the Nationís Nurses in the Wake of Newtown - page 17

by NRSKarenRN Admin

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Reposting from PSNA Communications email. Karen A Call to Action from the Nationís Nurses in the Wake of Newtown More Than 30 Nursing Organizations Call for Action in Wake of Newtown Tragedy (12/20/12) Like the rest... Read More


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    Most murderers only do it once unless contracted. Those rarely get caught. Most of that degree of violence is emotional and personal. To claim they would not have happened if a gun were not available denies the knife deaths, blugeonings, running someone over with a car, etc. Most of these aare also emotional murders. What we are currently seeing with the massacres is something different. I doubt we have any stats that really address what we are seeing. We have seen poison gas used in some places, England pops to mind quickly.

    As I said, I am middle of the road about guns. I do not think there is one answer. I think LaPierre presents the NRA as knuckle draggers and fools. I know most are neithr. i think they are the people who can put pressure on the NRA, LaPierre and the gun lobby to be reasonable. Those who are advocating keeping the laws as they are or making less government interference need to offer something. There is a need for compromise. Compromise is when both sides are unhappy and can live with it.
    VivaLasViejas likes this.
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    Quote from InfirmiereJolie
    You just used Ad Hominem, Red Herring, and Poisoning the Well...
    Whatever. I will be interested in your point of view when you decide to engage in an honest discussion and stop name calling and refusing to answer any questions about your own position.
    SoldierNurse22 and msn10 like this.
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    I am not subject to your questions or what you want me to do. This is a public forum where I can post whatever, wherever I want to and when I want to. If you don't like it, you do not have to answer.

    You can cherry pick what you want to discuss while ignoring the blaring facts and statistics which completely obliterate your position, then continue to do so and claim I am not giving a response. People though can completely see what is being written and can see your side has been 100% incinerated, if they have an open mind, that is.

    ((((BTW, the rest of the post which was chopped up in my quote he conveniently left out was...

    "However, as you can see above, homicides and suicides (over half, nearing 16,000) (which neither are classified as "self defense," which is actually far more unusual than has been claimed by false sources, i.e., they are primarily used for murders and purposeful deaths, and are certainly not usually police shootings, which I have seen to be extremely low overall, in the 10's or 100's) are the primary and cruel causes of firearm-related deaths...

    Also, it is false to suggest only those with a criminal history are the perpetrators of these crimes. In fact, most do not have a previous criminal history. (Interesting.)

    Australia discovered this back in the 1990's when they were formatting their gun legislation.

    Firearms and death in Australia

    "It has been estimated that 84 per cent of victims in mass killings between 1987 and 1993 were killed by a licensed gun holder, while 86 per cent of the victims were reportedly killed by a person with no recorded history of violent crime or mental illness.(6)"

    The recent mass killing at Port Arthur, Tasmania, which left 35 people dead has sparked understandable concern about firearms in Australia. It is important to remember, however, that firearms are also significant contributors to deaths by accident, suicide and in individual killings - in particular, domestic homicides. Firearms are important contributors to death and injury in two ways. First, in terms of their availability and second, because they are lethal. The National Committee on Violence concluded: The vast majority of firearms homicides are unplanned and impulsive, and in all likelihood would not occur if such a lethal weapon were not to hand. The availability of a firearm in these circumstances makes death a far greater likelihood, for research has demonstrated that the death rate for victims assaulted by guns is several times that of those assaulted with lethal intent by knives or other weapons.(7)

    International experience appears to support this finding and the view that the amount of violent death in the community is related to gun ownership. One study, based on a sample of 18 countries concluded:
    Substantial correlations were found between gun ownership and gun-related as well as total suicide and homicide rates. Widespread gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other potentially lethal instruments less often when more guns are available, but more guns usually means more victims of suicide and homicide.(8)


    After Port Arthur - Issues of Gun Control in Australia ‚Äď Parliament of Australia"

    I hope for the person who posted above that the substitution effects are null and void, based on false assumptions and been dis-proven over and over again in numerous studies. The most used weapon in homicides: guns.

    Out of ALL countries listed previously (where there are SIXTY FIVE (65!) countries which have lower gun-related deaths... America has more guns, and less strict laws, than the 65 BETTER countries in terms of managing their gun-related deaths. We were #10 in terms of severity of gun deaths (embarrassing on the world stage), behind ALL 1st world countries and many developing countries as well. Many guns are even smuggled out of America to wreck havoc in other countries, as seen in Canada.

    Quote from PMFB-RN
    Whatever. I will be interested in your point of view when you decide to engage in an honest discussion and stop name calling and refusing to answer any questions about your own position.
    Last edit by InfirmiereJolie on Jan 5, '13
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    Here is a fact many anti-gun folks like to ignore

    In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA


    It appears guns are less deadly than Obamacare.
  5. 1
    Quote from InfirmiereJolie
    I am not subject to your questions or what you want me to do. This is a public forum where I can post whatever, wherever I want to and when I want to. If you don't like it, you do not have to answer
    *** Yes thank you for pointing out the obvious in a most condecending manner as you have often done during this discussion. While I would think it so obvious as to not need pointing out that you are not subject to my (or apperently any) questions, your name calling, condecending manner of writing, and failure to engage in honest dialog destroys your credabiliety.
    I offered the comments to help you. I believe you have valuable imput to offer. If you could just put them together in some coherent way that could be followed and in some way were related to other parts of the discussion.
    SoldierNurse22 likes this.
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    Medical Error is a world-wide problem and has no relationship with gun control laws or the number of guns owned.

    "One reason for the observation that system-wide progress in patient safety is slow is that compliance even with simple and inexpensive interventions such as hand disinfection remains low [36] and the penetration of evidence-based safety practices has been quite modest and often needs years of change [46]. It is surprising that this slow and fractious progress seems to be to some extent accepted by health policy leaders and clinicians, given the safety epidemic and the widespread perception of medical error in the general public. For example, in a recent citizen survey conducted in eleven high-income countries, one out of ten citizens reported medical or medication error [47]. However, this rate varied widely between countries (range: 5% in the UK, 11% in Switzerland, 13% in the US, 16% in Norway). "
    David L. B. Schwappacha,b, Dieter Conena

    a Swiss Patient Safety Foundation, Zuerich, Switzerland
    b Institute of Social and Preventive Medicine (ISPM), University of Bern, Switzerland
    Swiss Medical Weekly, SMW - Swiss Medical Weekly -¬*22802216



    Remember, Switzerland - which trains its citizens (each young adult male) to be soldiers by law and has 28% gun ownership, and astronomical suicide and domestic violence rates (even more victims by assisted suicide groups and climbing.. 748 exactly..) - is the outlier of the EU which is usually used to argue against any gun laws.


    Quote from HM-8404
    Here is a fact many anti-gun folks like to ignore

    In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA


    It appears guns are less deadly than Obamacare.
  7. 3
    Quote from HM-8404
    Here is a fact many anti-gun folks like to ignore

    In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA


    It appears guns are less deadly than Obamacare.
    ACA is just coming into the picture. it really cannot be blamed for stats 10 years old. It could be a good reason for needing to be implemented, who knows.

    I don't think either situation, medical error or gun deaths, is one to brag about.
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    This is one of those polarizing issues that there is no real middle ground.

    Allnurses supports lively debates as long as everyone is respectful of each other and each others opinions. We a;so ask to please refrain from name-calling...... This is divisive, rude, and derails the thread.

    Our first priority is to the members that have come here because of the flame-free atmosphere we provide. There is a zero-tolerance policy here against personal attacks. We will not tolerate anyone insulting other's opinion nor name calling.
    Our call is to be supportive, not divisive.

    We can disagree without being disagreeable.
  9. 1
    America's Craziest Sheriff Sends Vigilantes To Arizona Schools | ThinkProgress

    This is why many are concerned about the vision of Mr. LaPierre. I refuse to bbelieve it is the position of those who actually pay dues to belong.

    Vigilantes - Just what we do not want.
    InfirmiereJolie likes this.
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    Quote from aknottedyarn
    America's Craziest Sheriff Sends Vigilantes To Arizona Schools | ThinkProgress

    This is why many are concerned about the vision of Mr. LaPierre. I refuse to bbelieve it is the position of those who actually pay dues to belong.

    Vigilantes - Just what we do not want.
    I used to live in Arizona and it has an unbelievable gun-death problem. They also have some (if not the) most relaxed state gun laws in the country, receiving an F grade.

    There would be people shooting guns very close to where I lived in the middle of the night (like 1 am) and it was disturbing. When there are so many people using guns, how are you supposed to know when it is real and when it isn't? Who are these people? They can't all be shooting "coyotes" in middle of the night (seriously!), this doesn't even make sense. Plus, they don't even follow the 70 foot rule or whatever it is to not shoot close to houses. It is difficult to enforce those rules. Almost everyone there is loaded, no matter who they are. Less guns are better because how are you supposed to know what is real and what isn't if people are shooting guns all the time? When do you call 911? You just don't know, it is really sketchy. Much of the state is rural, too, not even close to police stations so who knows what can happen especially since everyone has guns and using them at 1 am in the morning.


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