"Socialized medicine" - page 5

I am interested in your opinions about introducing a national healthcare system in the United States. What do you think about introducing free basic packet of healthcare services (e.g. emergency... Read More

  1. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from LPNer
    I agree with so much of what you are saying, but as far as insuring the working poor, we already do. Working poor can get Medicaide (and food stamps).
    My son, his girlfriend and 2 kids are on it. And ya know what? They have very good care, no out of pocket expenses not even an insurance premium.
    I on the other hand, I work and pay my insurance premiums (as well as buy groceries), I also have co-pay on Dr visits, meds, tests, etc.
    Given what I pay for health care and groceries : what they don't pay, their disposable income is higher than mine! and I make 30,000 $ more a year than they do!
    Where is the sense in all that? No matter how you look at it, insurance premiums, co-oays, etc or taxes. The "theys" of this country will still be getting better care than those of us who pay for it.
    well would you please just tell that to my friends who *are* working and are MEDICAID-INELIGIBLE, please? Then, maybe they can get on "easy street" like your son.

    My friends can only get COBRA, which they cannot *AFFORD* so they have NO medical insurance whatsoever. I think it royally sucks that anyone who puts in 9 or 10 hours a day at work can't get medical coverage, dont' you?! So sorry, I stand by my original post. Before we build more bombs, spend more money on overseas charity, we need to take care of the ones who have to do without basics like healthcare first. :angryfire
  2. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from LPNer
    I am sorry, I didn't mean to imply that ALL working poor can get Medicaide. I am aware that benefits are based on wage:number of family members; often number of minor family members. My point was, those of us who pay dearly for medical care will continue to do so and we will likely end up paying more to "cover" those who can't or won't pay for themselves. While those of us who DO PAY, will continue to realize a smaller disposable income.
    I would rather pay for the medical care of people in this country than one more war, myself!!!
  3. by   LPNer
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    well would you please just tell that to my friends who *are* working and are MEDICAID-INELIGIBLE, please? Then, maybe they can get on "easy street" like your son.

    My friends can only get COBRA, which they cannot *AFFORD* so they have NO medical insurance whatsoever. I think it royally sucks that anyone who puts in 9 or 10 hours a day at work can't get medical coverage, dont' you?! So sorry, I stand by my original post. Before we build more bombs, spend more money on overseas charity, we need to take care of the ones who have to do without basics like healthcare first. :angryfire
    I and my children went for years without medical coverage. I really don't want to hear any stories about how it's soooo bad. I have no bleeding heart! I managed to make do without it and am offended by the thought of having to make it easier for those who don't have it now. I worked HARD to raise my kidswith a husband who did not help financially and added to my financial responsibilities.
    Fact is, I could not afford, nor qualify for health care and did without. I treated my kids injuries myself, a couple of times while at "war" with a school nurse who thought a cut should have been stitched where I believed it could heal just fine without stitches.
    I've been there, it's not fun. BUT, I still want no part of offering more of my hard earned money and benefits to those who can't afford it. Quite frankly, their health care is not my problem!
    Please, do not come back with the insult, not a week arguement that I must not be a very caring nurse, or just not a good nurse at all because I can see the big picture and accept the fact that "we" can never realialistically provide for the entire population nor can socialized anything truly work where human beings are involved.
  4. by   fergus51
    I wonder if you would feel the same if your child had cancer instead of a cut...

    Personally, I think the real problem Americans have is that they don't understand the way healthcare in other countries really works. In Canada, EVERYONE pays for healthcare. It isn't free. Your tax dollars pay for it, so everyone who works has to contribute. That isn't the case here in the US. Here, we can all gamble by not buying health insurance, then still get emergency care that we can't pay for.
  5. by   LPNer
    Quote from fergus51
    I wonder if you would feel the same if your child had cancer instead of a cut...

    Personally, I think the real problem Americans have is that they don't understand the way healthcare in other countries really works. In Canada, EVERYONE pays for healthcare. It isn't free. Your tax dollars pay for it, so everyone who works has to contribute. That isn't the case here in the US. Here, we can all gamble by not buying health insurance, then still get emergency care that we can't pay for.
    I can not speak for every state, but I do know that Ohio has a provision for people who do not qualify for or have private health insurance in the case of catostrophic illness.. A child with major medical problems will be provided medicaide, the rest of the family will not likely get it, but the sick child will. And, I have known people in years past that the county "took custody of" and then placed the child with her natural parents so medical bills would be taken care of. The parents did not loose their parental rights, so it does work out.
  6. by   smk1
    Quote from LPNer
    I and my children went for years without medical coverage. I really don't want to hear any stories about how it's soooo bad. I have no bleeding heart! I managed to make do without it and am offended by the thought of having to make it easier for those who don't have it now. I worked HARD to raise my kidswith a husband who did not help financially and added to my financial responsibilities.
    Fact is, I could not afford, nor qualify for health care and did without. I treated my kids injuries myself, a couple of times while at "war" with a school nurse who thought a cut should have been stitched where I believed it could heal just fine without stitches.
    I've been there, it's not fun. BUT, I still want no part of offering more of my hard earned money and benefits to those who can't afford it. Quite frankly, their health care is not my problem!
    Please, do not come back with the insult, not a week arguement that I must not be a very caring nurse, or just not a good nurse at all because I can see the big picture and accept the fact that "we" can never realialistically provide for the entire population nor can socialized anything truly work where human beings are involved.
    well thank your lucky stars that all you had to deal with were a few "cuts",others aren't so lucky, and yes i read that you don't care and have no bleeding heart. I can't be that insensitive that i can say i don't care when a person who works hard has to live with pain and illnesses that can be EASILY treated.
  7. by   Fuzzy
    My mother died of cancer when I was a teen---no insurance. That ruined our family. I'm trying hard not to follow in these footsteps with my own healthcare needs. I cannot get insurance because of pre-existing conditions namely epilepsy and bipolar disorder. I have looked into state aid but I make too much money. I'm unwilling to quit my job as I don't want to be 'on the dole' so to speak. I don't have all the answers but I sure feel like that I'm being punished by choosing (wanting) to remain a taxpayer by working.
    Fuzzy
  8. by   iggynan
    Quote from LPNer
    I and my children went for years without medical coverage. I really don't want to hear any stories about how it's soooo bad. I have no bleeding heart! I managed to make do without it and am offended by the thought of having to make it easier for those who don't have it now. I worked HARD to raise my kidswith a husband who did not help financially and added to my financial responsibilities.
    Fact is, I could not afford, nor qualify for health care and did without. I treated my kids injuries myself, a couple of times while at "war" with a school nurse who thought a cut should have been stitched where I believed it could heal just fine without stitches.
    I've been there, it's not fun. BUT, I still want no part of offering more of my hard earned money and benefits to those who can't afford it. Quite frankly, their health care is not my problem!
    Please, do not come back with the insult, not a week arguement that I must not be a very caring nurse, or just not a good nurse at all because I can see the big picture and accept the fact that "we" can never realialistically provide for the entire population nor can socialized anything truly work where human beings are involved.
    How uncaring can you be? You really shouldn't be so quick to lump all those who can't afford Health Insurance into the burden category. This is why in America there are millions of people who cannot access health care. I was a hardworking RN who landed up with Cancer and could not afford my health insurance. Fortunately, my husband got fired from his job and I was eligible for Medicaid, otherwise I would have been accruing catastrophic charges, or gone without treatment. I think it is very sad that you feel like you do. You had a hard time and you feel no one helped you, and you resent it so much, and you are so bitter that you feel no obligation to help the less fortunate. I ,for one, am now on Medicare after 24 months of disability, and I feel an obligation to take a very strong stand for Health Care Reform. I would strongly encourage every nurse to join their local chapter of Americans For Health Care or Put Families First. Health Care Workers can have an educated and strong voice to call for action if we band together.
  9. by   fergus51
    Quote from LPNer
    I can not speak for every state, but I do know that Ohio has a provision for people who do not qualify for or have private health insurance in the case of catostrophic illness.. A child with major medical problems will be provided medicaide, the rest of the family will not likely get it, but the sick child will. And, I have known people in years past that the county "took custody of" and then placed the child with her natural parents so medical bills would be taken care of. The parents did not loose their parental rights, so it does work out.
    Sounds a lot like socialized medicine to me (the government takes care of the bills and the family doesn't have to pay). The only difference is in a universal system, their taxes would go to pay for it. Am I the only one who sees the similarities?
  10. by   LPNer
    Quote from fergus51
    Sounds a lot like socialized medicine to me (the government takes care of the bills and the family doesn't have to pay). The only difference is in a universal system, their taxes would go to pay for it. Am I the only one who sees the similarities?
    No, I also see the similaraties. I also hear nurses from Canada, the UK, Australia tell us their systems just don't work like many Americans think they do. Socialized medicine is not the way to fix the health care system.

    OK, so taxes are used to pay for health care. Given the way we know taxes are paid in this country, and probably others too, those who work to earn a larger income will pay more than those who don't earn so much. I do not like this idea, if I have to pay 50.00 a paycheck for inxurance, I expect anybody else with like insurance to pay the same, if they don't, well, I guess they just can't have the same insurance I have.

    I am accused of being uncaring. This is not true.
    I accept the the fact the socialized medicine will not work. For that reason, I am against paying more (oh yea, taxes would go up to cover it) for health insurance so the people down the street can stay healthy enough to continue working at a low paying job with as much disposable income as I do (because of the tax brackets) while I find it difficult to get convenient, quality health care because the line of people waiting to get in to see my Doc grows ever longer each day.
    It is not that I do not care about people without health care, I just care about me and my own more. Maybe selfish, but not uncaring.
  11. by   Nancy2
    I have recently done quite a bit of research on different systems in France, Canada, Germany and the UK.
    Most are funded with mandatory taxes (about 40% income tax) and in Canada their system coverage does not cover vision, dental or prescriptions!
    All of the systems are now requiring an additional copay for visits to the doctor and very long waiting lists for anything that is not urgent or emergent(decided by someone else) The theory of universal coverage sounds good, but in practice it works nothing like the preachers tell us. The other thing is that RNs in these systems make way less money on average than US nurses. Also, none of them have RN-patient ratios, which would greatly increase the costs of theses systems and either make less facilities available or TAXES go WAY UP!
    Think about it very carefully!!!!Please
  12. by   fergus51
    I never had any co-pays when I lived in BC or Ontario and our ratios were the same as here in the US. Eye exams were free every 2 years in Ontario, but I had to pay for them in BC. My taxes were the same percentage as they are here. My wage is more here when you factor in the time and a half I get for the last 4 of my 12 hour shift, but I think that has more to do with the high cost of living in California than anything else. I don't advocate a socialized or universal system for the US, but I maintain many Americans don't know what those systems are really like since they never live in them.
  13. by   LPNer
    Quote from fergus51
    I never had any co-pays when I lived in BC or Ontario and our ratios were the same as here in the US. Eye exams were free every 2 years in Ontario, but I had to pay for them in BC. My taxes were the same percentage as they are here. My wage is more here when you factor in the time and a half I get for the last 4 of my 12 hour shift, but I think that has more to do with the high cost of living in California than anything else. I don't advocate a socialized or universal system for the US, but I maintain many Americans don't know what those systems are really like since they never live in them.
    We can read. And while that does not give a totally accurate picture, it is close enough for me to know that if nothing else, it would be akin to a return to the HMO, where you can't even go see a specialist unless a family Doc has sent you. Thanks, but I don't need that. OK, that may not be an exact example, but I am trying to build a concept here, not a study guide.

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