Should BSN be required entry level for practicing nurses? - page 2

I am very interested in this subject, and also curious how NP's will reply. The answer in my own mind is clear. Should the nursing shortage be a factor in making a decision such as this? What do... Read More

  1. by   NurseAngie
    Sure I do!:imbar I was just curious about what you were saying. I didn't understand. SORRY 'bout that. I've never heard of a "look ADN program" and maybe I was missing the train on that or something. I'm sorry that you are so miserable. Perhaps you teaching ADN students isn't in the best interest for them since you are sticking to your opinion that BSN should be mandated for entry level nursing. (How can you pretend to support something that you don't..really?) Nevermind, I know why you do it.$$$$$

    Angie
  2. by   NurseAngie
    I would also like to point out that a terrific benefit of an associate degree program is the flexibilty. Also the fact that BSN programs may not be widely available to those with a desire to attend one. I lived in Meridian, Mississippi {Mississippi is where Mark lives} a few years ago (we left in 1999) and there were NO BSN programs close enough to commute to. There were 3 ADN programs. One at Meridian Community College, one at another community college about 30 miles away, and one just across the Alabama line at a university (which did not offer a BSN!). I personally may not ever get a BSN. I may pursue a degree in Business(MBA). Nurses are giving NURSING a bad name. No wonder so many of my peers are going into other career fields.


    Condescending attitudes are so unbecoming.
    Angie
  3. by   Hardknox
    This subject has been done to death! SEARCH THE ARCHIVES!
  4. by   RNConnieF
    On the topic of BSN this response comes from one who started life as an LPN, graduated from an ADN program and is in the third year of a BSN program. As an LPN student I got 1200 hours of clinical in one year, as an ADN I got 324 clinical hours in one year, as a BSN student I will get 256 hours in one year. Which program do you think taught me the most about patient care, bed side nursing, and nursing skills? I have always felt that nurses exclude the most valuable members of the profession for all the wrong reasons. Further education is ALWAYS to the benefit of the individual and the profession they represent, but it should not be the defining item for inclusion in the profession. Of all my nursing instructors I still feel that I learned more about patient care and caring nursing from the 30 year LPN grad from a tech school, who was brought in as an instructor of basic nursing skills, than I did from any of my other instructors. There is room for all of us in the practice of nursing and we need each other too much to exclude nurses based on degree status.
  5. by   Amy ER Nurse
    I am an ADN nurse, and I passed the exact same state board exam that the BSN nurses took. We learned the same material in less time.
  6. by   NurseAngie
    I enjoyed reading your post. I'm seriously thinking of getting out of nursing...I'm supposed to begin the ADN program next month. Maybe I will go on for that business degree now. I'm sick to death of all the bitter-batter that nurses are so good at. THAT is why we aren't seen as professionals. Do you think that any of the other health professsionals sit around discussing nurses' education levels...I doubt that.


    ~Angie
  7. by   RNConnieF
    Angie,
    Stick with us, we getting better and better and we need new voices like yours to remind us where we need to go to make nursing better for nurses, not just patients.
  8. by   TCW
    I have a BA in another field and will be attending a 2 year program to obtain my nursing degree. The local universities near me expect that at 30 years old I can drop everything, attend nursing school all day for 3 years and pay close to $50k. I am grateful that I can attend an ADN program because I would not be able to become a nurse any other way.

    I believe that nursing has a poor image and is not seen as being professional because most in the general public do not know what a nurse does and do not know how challenging nursing school can be. Having said that, I know there are some BSN programs that offer clinicals from day one as a freshman, but there aren't any of those near me. Many BSN programs just like most bachelor programs of any disciple spend way too much time on stuff that's not pertinent to the job. I think it's an elitist thing to assume that a BSN is automatically better. Just my 2 cents though.

    T
  9. by   live4today
    originally posted by amy er nurse
    i am an adn nurse, and i passed the exact same state board exam that the bsn nurses took. we learned the same material in less time.
    imhpo.....for that reason and that reason alone is why there is still a major war going down in the field of nursing today! amen...amy! :kiss

    the american journal of nursing began tooting this horn of change many years ago, and has been relentless in their efforts to make other nursing educational programs look bad. this is so typical of the women who packed up their aprons in the early 1980's and exchanged it for what they thought was going to net them respect and status. now...today...those same women have added many other angry women to their crusade to discredit anything short of a nurse having a bachelors in nursing degree. well......it's been in my life's experience that if you toot your horn long enough you'll either run out of wind, or you'll regret putting your foot in your mouth in the first place because we...as nurses... have yet to make any positive changes in the field of nursing.

    everybody wants change, and some...not all...but some will go to any length to get what they want...no matter who they have to step on to get where they are going. amy hit it right on the head...imhpo! it's all about the fact that bsn grads are upset that they had to go to school perhaps one year longer than aas/adn grads...and paid out megabucks for their education compared to the amount of money the adn/aas grads paid. some...not all...but some of them resented having to stand in line with the aas/adn grads to sit for the exact same nursing boards that would make us all equals........rns.

    i personally recall standing in line outside the building where i waited to enter to take state boards in july 1987 when i overheard several bsn grads asking where the "bsn grad line" was so they could get in to take their boards. i wish you could have seen the bewildered and shocking look on their faces when they were told "there is no bsn line. get in line because we are all here to sit for the same state boards". :chuckle

    women....we must stop this fighting about who or what is better or best and unite in the spirit of nursing to win a battle that we are losing in spite of what our degree may be. you and i both know that no one ever hears a bunch of "chicken cackling" as making any sense. the only thing that is going to put an end to the terror of nursing as it has become...mostly due to the ajn tooting their horn years ago causing the separation that is in nursing today...is that we must join as one license....not degree...not certification....one license...and be the rns that we desire to become!

    question: why are we carrying a license to practice registered nursing????

    answer: because we all passed what??? not a two or three or four year degree program......but because we sat for the nclex exam and passed. that and only that is what entitles us to practice as registered nurses.

    whatever type of degree we each have was our own choice to undertake......knowing there were other options available to reach the exact same goal......that goal being obtaining a license to practice as a registered nurse!

    i rest my case......and changeth my mind...not!!!
    :kiss
    Last edit by live4today on Jul 13, '02
  10. by   mark_LD_RN
    nurse angie you are sadly mistaken, first i do not do it for the money i do it because i love to teach and help others . I am not miserable, but to the contrary am very happy. I support the adn i teach but encourage them all to go on to get BSN. this does not affect my opinion on the BSN being the entry level. read current research and you will see that it agrees with what i am saying. I also believe it will never change.


    THE ONLY CONDESCENDING COMMENTS HERE HAVE BEEN STATED BY YOU.
  11. by   NurseAngie
    Originally posted by mark_LD_RN
    yes,i do. do you?

    guess you never made a typo in your life!

    This is what you call a friendly post? I was only asking you what you meant because I did not understand in your original post. I was not trying to be a smart a$$. I get what you were saying. And no, I do not teach at a "Look ADN program". (I feel really stupid because I was thinking that maybe it was a special kind of ADN program or something:imbar - I wasn't giving you crap over a typing error..geez) I do question why you would support an ADN program by teaching in one if you do not agree that it is a perfectly acceptable (and beneficial to some) route to take to become a registered nurse. I am personally never in one location long enough to go to a 4 year/8 semester nursing program. I am a geographic single mom while I trudge through the next two years for a 4 semester program. That is the benefit of an ADN program to me....4 beats the heck out of 8 semesters! Was I planning to stop at ADN level, not personally. Is it even worth all the yip yap....probably NOT.
    ~Angie <--- not being condescending at all.
  12. by   NurseAngie
    originally posted by cheerfuldoer


    everybody wants change, and some...not all...but some will go to any length to get what they want...no matter who they have to step on to get where they are going. amy hit it right on the head...imhpo! it's all about the fact that bsn grads are upset that they had to go to school perhaps one year longer than aas/adn grads...and paid out megabucks for their education compared to the amount of money the adn/aas grads paid. some...not all...but some of them resented having to stand in line with the aas/adn grads to sit for the exact same nursing boards that would make us all equals........rns.

    i personally recall standing in line outside the building where i waited to enter to take state boards in july 1987 when i overheard several bsn grads asking where the "bsn grad line" was so they could get in to take their boards. i wish you could have seen the bewildered and shocking look on their faces when they were told "there is no bsn line. get in line because we are all here to sit for the same state boards". :chuckle

    women....we must stop this fighting about who or what is better or best and unite in the spirit of nursing to win a battle that we are losing in spite of what our degree may be. you and i both know that no one ever hears a bunch of "chicken cackling" as making any sense. the only thing that is going to put an end to the terror of nursing as it has become...mostly due to the ajn tooting their horn years ago causing the separation that is in nursing today...is that we must join as one license....not degree...not certification....one license...and be the rns that we desire to become!

    question: why are we carrying a license to practice registered nursing????

    answer: because we all passed what??? not a two or three or four year degree program......but because we sat for the nclex exam and passed. that and only that is what entitles us to practice as registered nurses.

    whatever type of degree we each have was our own choice to undertake......knowing there were other options available to reach the exact same goal......that goal being obtaining a license to practice as a registered nurse!

    i rest my case......and changeth my mind...not!!!
    :kiss [/b]

    :kiss for saying what you mean renee!

    ~angie <--- not a condescending attitude with this girl
  13. by   NurseAngie
    Originally posted by mark_LD_RN
    . Canada and Europe are headed for BSN requirement.
    I wonder if it is because in Europe (Italy, anyway) university is free. If the student chooses to go on above high school (which they go 13 years instead of 12) and they show academic ability then they are sent on to specialty school. (This is public institution only....I'm not sure about the private universities.) Also, they (for the most part) attend to their education before they ever marry and settle down to raise a family. Most Italians marry later, after they are secure in a job and have money saved to begin there married lives. This makes perfect sense as to why the traditional four year education is the way to go for them. They are young students with no other comittment than schooling. (Germany is similar...my neighbor back in Naples said that she wasn't allowed to go to college in Germany because her grades were poor. She went to work instead. They usually attend college straight out of high school.)

    I would like to go on for the record...I think education is valuable and I am not against anyone furthering their education at any level. I have nothing against anyone based on their "degree".
    ~Angie<--- Not being condescending at all

    Oh yeah...I wanted to add the best part for them...it's FREE (at public university!)
    Last edit by NurseAngie on Jul 14, '02

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