Should BSN be required entry level for practicing nurses?

Specialties NP

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I am very interested in this subject, and also curious how NP's will reply. The answer in my own mind is clear. Should the nursing shortage be a factor in making a decision such as this? What do you think? How do you think a transition to a Baccalaureate requirement could be implemented in the US?

sleepy eyes you need to get some rest and get up on the right side of the bed,:). you seem very hostile to BSN. I beg to differ with you but BSN have more skills than a lab rat. Our program required more clinican time than any of the local adn programs did by far. This a a falicy that has been promoted and perpetuated by many ADN programs. for a program to get and keep its accreditation it needs to meet the standards set for clinical contact ours per class room hours. BSN requires more class room ours and thus more clinical time. One example is the preceptorship requirement the two BSN programs here require 160 and 200 hours, the 2 adn programs require 40 and 60 hours this is just one example.

we need to have open minds and support our coworkers and encourage them to increase their knowledge, through formal education,self study, inservices,seminars or what ever we can. If nursing will continue to fall to the wayside and not get the respect it deserves. this topic needs to be looked at in a logical factual manner not emotional or oppinionated manner.

lets all work together to improve nursing. Any ideas?

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Originally posted by mark_LD_RN

sleepy eyes you need to get some rest and get up on the right side of the bed,:). you seem very hostile to BSN. I beg to differ with you but BSN have more skills than a lab rat. Our program required more clinican time than any of the local adn programs did by far. This a a falicy that has been promoted and perpetuated by many ADN programs. for a program to get and keep its accreditation it needs to meet the standards set for clinical contact ours per class room hours. BSN requires more class room ours and thus more clinical time. One example is the preceptorship requirement the two BSN programs here require 160 and 200 hours, the 2 adn programs require 40 and 60 hours this is just one example.

we need to have open minds and support our coworkers and encourage them to increase their knowledge, through formal education,self study, inservices,seminars or what ever we can. If nursing will continue to fall to the wayside and not get the respect it deserves. this topic needs to be looked at in a logical factual manner not emotional or oppinionated manner.

lets all work together to improve nursing. Any ideas?

Not hostile to BSN grads, only to posters who insult my intelligence by labelling me a "grade 13 grad," insinuate that I am not one of "the best and the brightest," or that I am "junior college material," and who imply that because I went through an ADN program, that I'm inferior as a nurse or a person. Please re-read my post and the letter that I was answering.

In this part of the country, the BSN nurses have less than half of the clinical time of the ADN nurses by the time they graduate.

If we worked side-by-side, unless you asked and unless I told you, you really wouldn't know that I had an ADN and I wouldn't give a hoot'n'holler if you had a BSN. Unless you insult me.

But elitism reared its ugly head when you immediately jumped to the defense of the BSN program, but all the nasty comments about the ADN program nurses were left to stand, making me wonder if you had actually read all the previous posts and the quote that I was responding to.

So tell me this: if a kid does four years of high school and graduates, does that make him more of a high-school graduate than the kid who was so smart that he skipped a year? An ADN is simply a more accelerated program and the same stuff is learned; otherwise we'd have different RN boards to pass.

Maybe that is why the ADN programs haven't been phased out.

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sleepyeyes you are way of base here. I never insulted adn's and yes i have read most of the posts. I was adressing your comment about having the skills of a lab rat. I have said many times that nurses need to work together and have defended posts by adns.

put You are way out of line with adn being an accelerated program, it meets the minimun requirements of theory and clinical time. yes programs do vary for place to place, but if they are accreditied they must meet the minimun standards. this is not the same as a smart high schooler testing out of a grade. I hope you get what i am saying this is not meant as an insult just stating facts.

the poster that wrote adn's are grade 13 material or what ever her exact statement was , was also out of line, there is no need to insult each other.

I still stick to my opinion that BSN should be the entry level but not because it means they are better nurses. just that it would improve our image, nursing has become to techincal and advanced not to increase our requiements. all other areas of the medical profession have increased their mimnimal standards why should nursing be left behind. i feel nursing is not appealing to many people and yes a lot of the best and brightest don,t consider nursing, because of its image, it is often considered a vocation not a profession. and lastly we are underpaid.

you will have to forgive me for jumping to the defense of the BSN as you said. If It were not for the constant falicy being promoted that we have no clinical skills, only management, all we do is belittle the ADN. well you need to work near me, the ADN constantly put down and insult the BSN here, as a matter of fact I never let any one know i had a BSN until I started teaching. to let them know you have one is like painting a bulls eye on your back. it is a shame one can not be proud of their accomplishments.just to keep the peace. as you said if you were to work next to me i can promise you , you would not see any lack of skill on my part.

this is a subject that needs to be looked at logically, if you allow emotions to be involved and if we insult each other it will never be resolved. current research supports my belief that the BSN should be the entry level. some even suggest that masters level be entry level. research it for your self and see.

I do agree with an earlier poster that stated access is the key. but their is no reason with all the online bridge programs available today that we cannot go on to At least the BSN level. the ADN was originally set up to be a bridge program towards the BSN entry level. the moment just stalled out and it is mostly related to money issues.

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OK, I understand what you're saying but frankly, I feel like nurses are like the abused wife. There is always something "more" that needs to be done before they gain respect and good treatment.

Well, I'm not falling for it. My profession is worthy of respect as it stands. I think our real problem is that we just have very poor PR.

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I also feel it is deserving of respect as it is, and that PR is a big part of the problem. but the fact still stands that a lot of youg adults and teenagers surveyed feel the need to attenda 4 yr program to be considered a profession. wether this is right or wrong is a matter of opinion. so either we have to make it more attractive or change their opinion. which do you think is easier? I personally find it is easier to make it more attactive that to change the majority of peoples opinions. this i get from yrs of dealing with people and the public.

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Hmmm...

I disagree with that. I think it'd be way cheaper in the long run to get ourselves a better public image, improve pay, benes, pension, and work environment.

Why? because people in the general public think, "good pay, important job, important job, professional."

A computer programmer is a professional, but what makes your ears perk up when you hear the title? The intellectual proficiency or the hundred-thousand-dollar-a-year salary?

To the average guy on the street, it's the money that engenders the respect. Oh yes, they respect smarts. But if a person is really smart, they'll get the money too.

My son is not a high-school grad. He lays tile. He makes $28 an hour and he's in a strong union. In the eyes of the general public, instant respect. He makes more money and has better benefits than I do, and I've had 5 years of college.

We keep trying to get the respect of the general public (who has the average reading skills of a 12-year-old) by talking over their heads. We lose the audience.

But it's an audience we need.

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I think the real problem is nurses refuse to accept each other for the abilities they have. I plan on putting this clinic hours thing to rest forever. I am going to do some research here about some programs, please look for a post from me. Respect each other, help each other, lift up each other. Be proud that you are nurses.

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Credentials, respect, reward, and job satisfaction - it is a vicious cycle! I am a Certified Occupational Health Nurse, with 31 years of experience in several different areas of nursing. I am sick and tired of nurses eating their young! Occ Hlth Nurses need a lot of experience in nursing to be effective, and we don't have many young nurses going into the field. As a population, nurses as a whole are OLD! I see other professions getting the respect and reward we long for. I finally now make the kind of salary that my engineer son commands shortly after graduating! And he doesn't make life-or-death decisions! Nurses, we ain't got no respect!!! And, guess what? We won't get it until our minimum educational standards equal other professions. It is just a fact of life, people. We have excellent nurses from all the types of preparation, but we need unity of purpose and a BSN minimum in order to attract young men and women of quality. Our legislators need to wake up and realize that the nursing shortage will continue unless $$ is allocated for scholarships to educate nurses to become educators of student nurses. Universities must have $$ to keep the schools open and growing. Again, we will never really be professionals without that minimum BSN degree. This is not the opinion of nurses only, but the opinion of the rest of the world out there. Nurses are trusted and loved, but not respected as professionals! I hear and see us destroying ourselves - we have to change the way we present ourselves to the world.

Nurses - kwitchyur*****in, write your representatives in government, and support one another. Otherwise you can kiss it goodbye!!!

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I believe this is the zillionth time this question has been posted on this board. We are all entitled to our personal opinions, and need to be respectful of others. Yes, I believe our profession would get more respect if the BSN were the required entry (as is required for teachers.) I believe if this were the case, entry salaries would be higher. Just think that teacher's salaries more than double during their career -- even if they stay in the same position. This does not happen in nursing.

However, I do not believe that a diploma/ADN/BSN is the most important thing for a REGISTERED NURSE -- being bright, caring, holistic, team-playing, patient advocate, keeping current on education/skills. solid critical thinking skills, maintaining grace under pressure -- these are what make an RN great. And NO entry nurse (whether diploma/ADN/BSN) possesses these -- they come with experience.

I earned my ADN first -- then felt it was important for ME to earn my BSN. Each degree was "right" for me at the time. I do not believe that education is ever a waste. Don't generalize that "nurses with this or that degree" have little clinical experience -- as long as they come with a solid theory base -- we can teach them the clinical skills. More importantly -- can they apply their theory to clinical situations through good critical-thinking skills? I have never never never heard ONE nurse where I work speak about diploma vs. adn vs. bsn -- perhaps because we all work together as a team and we each bring important life skills and experience to our positions.

Peace to all the diploma nurses, adn nurses, and bsn nurses.

Remember -- KINDNESS COUNTS. Sue:nurse:

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THis debate has been going on for as long as I have been a nurse (22 yrs). Sadly I don't see a positive answer. I agree with many of the previous responses that support a BSN as entry level requirement We will never view ourselves, or be considered by others to be professionals if we have less. As mentioned, most other health care providers (occupational therapists, physical therapists, dieticians, radiology technicians, nuclear technicians) have bachelors degrees. THey need to know we are equal in educational backgrounds. I can't even believe this is still an issue but with the current shortage, and demand for nurses to be "mass produced" it will probably only worsen.

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I was just curious. I am currently taking an online course working towards my BSN. I am currently AAs nursing with about one year left for BSN. I was always under the impression the proposal was fro BSN to be the entry level for professional nursing. I am new to this board but plan on coming back for more. CYA

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