Should BSN be required entry level for practicing nurses?

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I am very interested in this subject, and also curious how NP's will reply. The answer in my own mind is clear. Should the nursing shortage be a factor in making a decision such as this? What do you think? How do you think a transition to a Baccalaureate requirement could be implemented in the US?

Specializes in Perinatal/neonatal.
originally posted by cheerfuldoer

everybody wants change, and some...not all...but some will go to any length to get what they want...no matter who they have to step on to get where they are going. amy hit it right on the head...imhpo! it's all about the fact that bsn grads are upset that they had to go to school perhaps one year longer than aas/adn grads...and paid out megabucks for their education compared to the amount of money the adn/aas grads paid. some...not all...but some of them resented having to stand in line with the aas/adn grads to sit for the exact same nursing boards that would make us all equals........rns.

i personally recall standing in line outside the building where i waited to enter to take state boards in july 1987 when i overheard several bsn grads asking where the "bsn grad line" was so they could get in to take their boards. i wish you could have seen the bewildered and shocking look on their faces when they were told "there is no bsn line. get in line because we are all here to sit for the same state boards". :chuckle

women....we must stop this fighting about who or what is better or best and unite in the spirit of nursing to win a battle that we are losing in spite of what our degree may be. you and i both know that no one ever hears a bunch of "chicken cackling" as making any sense. the only thing that is going to put an end to the terror of nursing as it has become...mostly due to the ajn tooting their horn years ago causing the separation that is in nursing today...is that we must join as one license....not degree...not certification....one license...and be the rns that we desire to become!

question: why are we carrying a license to practice registered nursing????

answer: because we all passed what??? not a two or three or four year degree program......but because we sat for the nclex exam and passed. that and only that is what entitles us to practice as registered nurses.

whatever type of degree we each have was our own choice to undertake......knowing there were other options available to reach the exact same goal......that goal being obtaining a license to practice as a registered nurse!

i rest my case......and changeth my mind...not!!! :kiss :) [/b]

:kiss for saying what you mean renee!

~angie

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Specializes in Perinatal/neonatal.
Originally posted by mark_LD_RN

. Canada and Europe are headed for BSN requirement.

I wonder if it is because in Europe (Italy, anyway) university is free. If the student chooses to go on above high school (which they go 13 years instead of 12) and they show academic ability then they are sent on to specialty school. (This is public institution only....I'm not sure about the private universities.) Also, they (for the most part) attend to their education before they ever marry and settle down to raise a family. Most Italians marry later, after they are secure in a job and have money saved to begin there married lives. This makes perfect sense as to why the traditional four year education is the way to go for them. They are young students with no other comittment than schooling. (Germany is similar...my neighbor back in Naples said that she wasn't allowed to go to college in Germany because her grades were poor. She went to work instead. They usually attend college straight out of high school.)

I would like to go on for the record...I think education is valuable and I am not against anyone furthering their education at any level. I have nothing against anyone based on their "degree".

~Angie

Oh yeah...I wanted to add the best part for them...it's FREE (at public university!):D

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Specializes in Perinatal/neonatal.
originally posted by rnconnief

angie,

stick with us, we getting better and better and we need new voices like yours to remind us where we need to go to make nursing better for nurses, not just patients.

thank you for your post!

~angie

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I too feel that the BSN should be the entry level into nursing. I read an editorial recently (written by a FNP with a MNSc)stating that the problems with nursing can be traced back to one underlying factor, which is the nursing "profession" has not remained steadfast in their conviction to abolish diploma and ADN programs. As a result, nursing continues to believe it is a profession when in actuality, it is nothing more than a dead-end "vocational" job. Consequently, nursing will never attract the best and the brighest, but instead settle for "junior college material" or "grade 13 grads".

Just my .02 (and forgive me if I sound blunter than usual; I just woke up):

The diploma programs were abolished because they encouraged "slave labor" at the hospitals, sacrificing theory. The ADN programs' advantage -- and partly why I chose an ADN program -- is that they have more clinical time than a BSN, and includes all the applicable theory you'll really ever need.

Therefore, the BSN, IMHO, is the one that's useless. You'll never get your investment back unless you go into management. You'll come out on the floor with less clinical ability than the average CNA. You won't have the "clinical instincts" of a lab rat.

By the way, having already had a lot of college before I started my BSN, I'm about 4 courses away from my BSN, but frankly, why bother? The further one steps from hands-on, direct patient care, the further one goes from the spirit of "real" nursing.

I know lots of nurses who have their BSN or Masters, and their degrees don't get them more earning power--their experience does.

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I've been reading and participating on this forum for a few years now, and I still don't get the way you guys become RN's. It's way too confusing. In Australia, we have Personal Care Attendants/Assistants in Nursing (unqualified, usually 6 - 8 week course), Enrolled Nurses (18 months at a TAFE college) and Registered Nurses (3 years at University). There are universities in every capital city, most large regional towns, and if you happen to be unlucky (or lucky, depending on your point of view) enough to live more than an hour away from your local uni, YOU MOVE!! RN's who were registered when the new program came in were grandfathered in with no loss of status or remuneration, and we don't have free university over here, either. We have a national accreditation body for uni nursing degrees, and reciprocal rights to practice in every other state, all you have to do is pay another registration fee ($50 to $100 AU = $25 to $50 US). I'm not saying it's perfect, and we have the same problems here with lack of respect from doctors, insufficient nurse numbers, etc. BUT, at least we don't suffer from the same "flogging a dead horse" routine that I see so frequently on this forum.

All other health professionals (OT, PT, Speech path, etc.) go throught a degree program to gain their qualifications. Why not make it across the board?

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nurseangie if you wanted to know what program it was all you had to do is ask. sorry if i took it the wrong way.

as far as why i teach at a ADN program.I love to work with and teach the students i encourage them to go on and further thier education. I think at this point in time the adn is an acceptable starting point but one should go on. the original purpose of the adn program was to get people into nursing and bridge them over to the BSN programs. The movement to make BSN the entry level started in 1965 in response to a nursing shortage.

I teach partime at the ADN program and am an adjunct clinical instructor at local BSN program.

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Therefore, the BSN, IMHO, is the one that's useless. You'll never get your investment back unless you go into management. You'll come out on the floor with less clinical ability than the average CNA. You won't have the "clinical instincts" of a lab rat.

You sound very angry and to top that, you have slandered your peers. These type of comments make us all look petty and childish to the medical community

I would also like to say that your humble opinion is inaccurate and too global. To say that a BSN has no clinical skills is inflammatory. It is perfectly acceptable to be a BSN, diploma, or ADN. It is a pity that you have chosen to attack rather than support your position. After you become a more seasoned RN, perhaps your narrow view will broaden.

I have a BSN and was given as many or more clinical hours as any ADN program in my area. Yes, I checked this out before entering a BSN many years ago and nothing has changed in recent years.

It is my opinion that nursing respect and salary will not improve until the BSN becomes the standard throughout the USA. Our co-workers in OT, PT, etc. have a BS and we need to join in that requirement. If nursing is to be valued of by others as the profession we know it to be, it needs to move away from the technical colleges and progress to a university foundation. In the meantime, RNs need to join ranks with each other in solidarity.

Despite your opinion of my degree. this BSN RN will work beside you, support and defend you, honor and encourage you, You might even find out we can pool our resources for the benefit of our patient.

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you know, this kinda crap pisses me off. I do not owe anyone a damned explaination for my personal choice to go for my BSN, I have been a nurse for many many moons as an LPN... I am proud of who I am and do not give a sh@$ for anyone who keeps downing this profession. I want to be a nurse despite of all the crap that goes with it because there are many great things that balance it out. BSn made more sense to me because it is basically the same amount of time for me in this bridge program as it would take for an ADN. I feel that it is rediculous to say that one is better than the other.... after all is said and done both programs do not make you an RN...... you have to take the same freaking BOARD exam..... If you do not like nursing than get out of the prefession... I have told this to many doctors who get pissed when I have called them @ 3 am in regards to their patient.....

"If you don't like this, then perhaps you should consider flipping hamburgers @ BurgerKing for a living....."

This is not a personal attack to any one in particular .... just an venting moment for me!!!!!!!

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Wow, when will all of this end. I plan to take the two year route. if I need to explain why then I will. Because financially it makes sense. In two years I can be working and then i will go on and get my BSN not because I think I will be better but because for me it is the right thing to do. If their are two year nurses who want to remain two year nurse,who cares? I think at this point in time that noone should cut their nose off to spite their face. We need everyone we have. LPN's, RN's BSN's etc If your a good nurse your needed, heck from what I've seen even the bad nusres have a job right now. Support each other that is what makes nursing a proffession, not the letter behind the name.

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We need everyone we have. LPN's, RN's BSN's etc If your a good nurse your needed

AMEN to that!!!

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Specializes in Perinatal/neonatal.
Originally posted by mark_LD_RN

nurseangie if you wanted to know what program it was all you had to do is ask. sorry if i took it the wrong way.

as far as why i teach at a ADN program.I love to work with and teach the students i encourage them to go on and further thier education. I think at this point in time the adn is an acceptable starting point but one should go on. the original purpose of the adn program was to get people into nursing and bridge them over to the BSN programs. The movement to make BSN the entry level started in 1965 in response to a nursing shortage.

I teach partime at the ADN program and am an adjunct clinical instructor at local BSN program.

I'm sorry Mark. I should have just typed it all out ( I try to be brief in my posts...I apologize.) so you would know what I was trying to say (actually ask...that's why I used the? in my post). Anyway, I agree with you that ADN is acceptable and I am for everyone getting the most education that they can so that they may live their lives to the fullest! (That doesn't necessary mean an academic education...I've learned so much about myself and the world since I got to live in Europe for a little while.) Take care.

:kiss Ang

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i guess that happens when two people try to make posts short,:). apology accepted

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