Yelling Doctors, How do you handle them?????

[Danielle7]

The other night at work (I work 7PM shift), I admitted a new patient. She was seen at her doctors office a couple days before and was started on PO antibiotics TID. She did not take her antibiotic all day. At my hospital we are to clarify meds upon admission and she could not remember the dose perscribed. So I had to page her doctor, which has a reputation of being mean at 11PM (not that late). He interrupted my question by yelling/screaming at me, asking me how he would know the dose (he prescribed it), demanding I answer why it couldn't wait till morning while huffing and puffing on the phone!!! I know if I didn't address it, the charge nurse or someone would of had my neck due to policy...Can't win!!

I've only been a nurse for 8 months and I haven't had much experience with this.

My question is... How do you respond to a doctor who talks to you this way- I mean screams at you this way?

[cardiacRN2006, ADN, RN]

I've witnessed upset physicians bypass yelling at me and picking the newer, younger female nurse out of the crowd at the nurse's station to vent on. Physicians are VERY selective about who they act this way with. .

I mean,this really sums up those physicians, doesn't it?

Bypassing the men, to attack young women.

I mean, really...what does that say about the Dr?

Choosing only the young, new, weak women....

Let's all take a step back and evaulate that. Because I've seen it too. We've all seen Drs do this.

Kinda sounds like a predator.

So, TiredMD, think about that when you think it's your "right" to yell at someone because they "deserve" it.

Think about how the world is viewing you right now, and when you are the one yelling.

[UM Review RN, ASN, RN]

Thanks for all of the feedback. Yes the doctor was on call AND admitted the pt. My hands were tied, I HAD to call due to policy...

BTDT, (((((I understand))))).

Some doctors use this tactic because they think that it will decrease the amount of nighttime calls that they will get. Because the calls do lessen greatly, they really believe that they've accomplished their goal -- to get a good night's rest.

What they forget is:

• They are on call and it is therefore their job to be available. Kinda like if I decide to take a nap on my break and then someone wakes me up due to a problem with a patient and I yell at the person for waking me up. I have no business sleeping, let along yelling at anyone, when I am on call. On call means "working." We do not sleep when we are working. Period.
  
• Nurses will really use all available resources before calling that doc. As a result, I have seen nurses panic about calling a doc over a crashing patient. This wastes precious time and I have seen it put patients in true jeopardy. I'll just bet that's the time you will still hear that same doc yelling, "WHY DIDN"T YOU CALL ME SOONER?" 3 guesses, Dr. Screamer, and the first two don't count.
  

[Virgo_RN, BSN, RN]

Thanks for all of the feedback. Yes the doctor was on call AND admitted the pt. My hands were tied, I HAD to call due to policy...

Thank you for the clarification.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

i will stand by my previous post....the only reason for calling a doc about this was to irratate him/her, to get them not to do it again. this isnt an accusation against the OP, but management......

if you absolutely had to call, 0530 or after would have been the appropriate (to me) time, and you might even throw in the fact that you waited, out of respect for his sleep.

[SharonH, RN]

In person: Walk away.

On the phone: Hang up.

I've done both. There is no point in dissecting the nurses' actions to try to figure out what he or she did wrong and thus may have "deserved" it. We are not little children who should be chided when we step out of line. If the nurses' actions are inappropriate, handle it professionally. For those who don't know what constitutes professional behavior, it does not include yelling.

And like Angioplasty, I walked away from bedside care 6 years ago because of mindsets similar to TiredMD that the nurse is some ignorant child who can be "whipped" verbally when they do something to irritate the almighty physician. I could handle the docs but my nursing colleagues who enabled and accepted this behavior were the last straw.

[Vito Andolini]

Bingo. If this wasn't the admitting physician, there was no reason to call that late. It's just completely inappropriate. This isn't a case of a "rude doctor", it's a rude nurse. Would the OP have called a family member that late to ask the same question? And I wonder, if a telemarketer had called the OP that late, if maybe they wouldn't have done a little yelling too?

If we had some ham, we could have ham and eggs, if only we had some eggs. :yeah:

[Vito Andolini]

I think you and I are reading this differently. I read it as the patient's primary care physician, who was not the admitting physician, was called at 11pm to answer a relatively insignificant question. Was he really on-call? I must have missed that part of the story. If so, then sure, he has an obligation. But if he's like most Primary Care docs these days, who do not admit their own patients, then he wasn't on-call for this patient, and it was a nuisance call. If that's the case, you really can't understand why someone might get hot under the collar?

Personally, I disagree. It gives you every right to yell at them. Someone who wakes you up in the middle of the night for something that is not only unimportant, but also that you have no responsibility for, absolutely deserves to get yelled at.

The fact that it is "hospital policy" does not trump the requirement to act with basic human courtesy. You do not wake up a person who is not on-call and not caring for a patient to ask some nonsense question. Anyone with half an ounce of common sense realizes this. Hiding behind hospital policy, or worse, making the physician responsible for changing an idiotic policy, is simply inappropriate. And I know you realize this, because you wouldn't have done it.

There's a tendency on this board to equate yelling with some kind of hideous assault that leaves people emotionally scarred. I've never understood that, and personally I'm grateful I've never worked in a place where people shared that attitude. There are times when it is perfectly appropriate to raise your voice, and I have employed it (effectively) on numerous occassions. It's not illegal, it's not unprofessional when done at the correct time, and I see nothing wrong with it.

Now I know why you're tired. It's from people calling to wake you up, out of spite. RESPECT, find out what it means to me. And make no mistake - someone with serious authority and power yelling at someone of a much less powerful status is a hideous assault that does cause emotional scarring. It is also immature, indicative of a loss of self-control and of arrogance, and is just plain rude. It might also show arrested emotional development - or exhaustion. Vicious cycle. Mean causes retaliation passively-aggressively causes mean and so on.

P.S. It actually might just be illegal. A form of battering, perhaps, or assault. Worth a talk with a lawyer to find out, I think.

We all have our problems. Those of doctors are no worse than those of nurses or other staff. doctors need to learn to show respect at all hours of the day and night. Nurses are expected to be nice at all times. No reason doctors should not also be nice at all times. Try whining or moaning instead of yelling. It calls forth empathy, not anger.

[TiredMD]

Actually, raising your voice is illegal. Its called assault. The laws views on assault are not the "slap on the wrist" variety when it does get reported either. You can take that to the bank. If you hear nothing else in my post, hear that, from someone who has seen people returned to jail for 3 years because they yelled at a bus driver for passing up their stop.

If you really believe this, I encourage you to call the police the next time a physician yells at you.

I imagine the laughter of the 911 operator will be the last thing you hear before you're fired.

[LilyBlue]

I don't think it is assault, but I do think yelling at people can definitely fall under verbal abuse. It's an interesting thing - the doctors who show respect are generally the most respected and their patients do better because nurses aren't afraid to communicate with the doctors.

I know it's probably irritating, but please try to remember that some nurses are very new and really don't know the culture - they also don't know what can wait til morning sometimes. They just don't want to hurt their patient. I'm not suggesting you ignore this, but take the time to "school" them nicely and you'll have a friend (or at least a nurse who respects you) for life.

I've been a nurse ten years, and the hardest I've ever cried and felt loss over a non-family member was when a neurologist I'd had the privelege of working with died last year. Why? Because when I was a brand new nurse, and scared to death, he took time to educate me on things in a nice way. I felt safer when he was around. The world was a better place because he was in it. And not just because of his professional abilities as a physician - because of the way he treated all human beings.

[RochesterRN-BSN, BSN, RN]

basically if she hadnt taken it all day, (and who knows how long before that, lol) it was not a current med. so, i would think no need to call, and the doc was right, how would he know? out of all the patients he has seen ......and calling the pharmacy is not an option with hipaa...unless the patient signs a permission form and you can fax it over...and i would think they (pharmacy) would have to verify the sig. with what ever they have on file

Maybe this is different in an ER but we call to pharmacies EVERY DAY to verify meds. And technically if we call another ER for medical records we don't need consent either, ER to ER and really to anywhere...ERs have special regs........it's an emergency. There are special regulations under HIPPA for ERs.....not sure how this works for a floor but...... in an ER patients are very ofen not able to consent--in a medical ER d/t being medically unstable and where I work-- A psych ER, the patients are not emotionally, mentally stable to consent. Hell try getting a consent, or anything you need signed, from a severely paranoid patient!!! lol

[LilyBlue]

Maybe this is different in an ER but we call to pharmacies EVERY DAY to verify meds. And technically if we call another ER for medical records we don't need consent either, ER to ER and really to anywhere...ERs have special regs........it's an emergency. There are special regulations under HIPPA for ERs.....not sure how this works for a floor but...... in an ER patients are very ofen not able to consent--in a medical ER d/t being medically unstable and where I work-- A psych ER, the patients are not emotionally, mentally stable to consent. Hell try getting a consent, or anything you need signed, from a severely paranoid patient!!! lol

I have the utmost respect for the position in nursing that you hold. I think psych nursing is one of the least valued positions and MOST needed. Thanks for doing what I don't think I could do. You rock!

[morte, LPN, LVN]

if the yelling puts the target in fear, yes it is assault, or in some states battery....but it is something that you would go to the police to file a complaint. unless you felt you where in emminent danger of physical harm.