This "us" vs "them" mentality.... - page 9

by DL-SNUP 11,360 Views | 134 Comments

I've been reading through the posts from the last few days, and I'm completely astonished by the "us" vs "them" mentality that is showing up between the nursing students and the staff nurses. Maybe I'm idealistic, but... Read More


  1. 5
    Quote from VICEDRN
    I guess that's what it comes down to. I don't think they missed anything. I think they missed out on something that they have defined as nursing: namely, skills. I certainly knew a lot of people who felt like that when I went to school too. Its too easy to call nursing a collection of skills and its too easy to point to it as being what they missed out on. Thank god nursing professors do not spend their time worrying about what a bunch of nursing students think they should be doing. IMHO, its almost narcissistic: this desire to "do" something to the patient. How about PAY attention to the clinical picture instead?

    Let me just say to those folks: you won't save a life because you know how to start an IV. There will be plenty of people in the room who can do it instead. You save a life by advocating for a patient that you observed to have a serious situation. (critical thinking and advocacy, not skill sets.)

    PS: Your future employer won't care to ask you about how many ivs you started or foley's you did. They will ask, "Now, what would you do in this situation?" to judge your ability to make decisions, act under pressure and think.
    I beg to differ....without IV access the patient wil die while everyone else is discussing the clinical picture to advocate for the patient for someone to start that IV. I have been asked on many occasions....How good are you at IV's as the resource person. Without that IV access.....the patient will die. If not the nurse then who starts them where you work? Not all hospitals have IV teams (which by the way are RN', in my experience). And not all ED's have resident/fellows and Medics.

    For me I believe that the lack of the skill set is what is damaging bedside nursing which is just as important as any other speciality in nursing itself and without us at the bedside....who cares for the patient while we are analyzing the clinical picture. When I went to school I got the best of both worlds.....diploma Is placed on the college campus and professors for the academics. I had the clinical of the diploma grads and had to fit college in between.

    I have no narcissistic desire to help but I do enjoy "nursing" and being a nurse.Isn't it and example of the "us versus them" in the post? I believe that we have swung to an extreme away from being nurses and will educate ourselves away from the bedside. I have always been very proud to be a bedside nurse, just a bedside grunt, taking satisfaction from a job well done. I have always wondered at the look of disdain when I've been asked about furthering my education and saying I'm very happy
    being the best bedside nurse I can be.....just a bedside grunt that has no ambition for any higher education.

    I hope the pendulum swings back the other way and being a bedside nurse is OK and having a good set of skill sets is an asset and not a lack of education looking at the clinical picture long enough to hold someone's hand.
    It's just my opinion and you know wha tthey say about opinions....they're like.....umm....noses..... and everybody has one that's different. :redpinkhe
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    Without beside grunts, that ED would get pretty backed up, eh?
  3. 1
    Quote from xtxrn
    Without beside grunts, that ED would get pretty backed up, eh?
    Yes it would...
    xtxrn likes this.
  4. 4
    Quote from linearthinker
    The reason I won't teach nursing students (besides the obvious facts that I am not nursing faculty, am not adequately educated in pedagogy and am not being paid to teach) is that I get all of the responsibility and no power. IMNSHO, the bar is set way too low for today's NS. I'd throw half of them out for being a) lazy and b) stupid. My cousin is in a RN program, and that girl is dumber than a sack of hair. I read posts here all the time from people that I desperately hope are not really nurses, b/c they sound dumb as he//. Half the nurses I know are an embarrassment to the profession and given the opportunity there is no way I'd ever have let them pass. So if you wont give me pass/fail authority, don't ask me to teach them anything more than where the bathroom is. I hope they already know how to flush the toilet and wash their own hands, but I know better than to count on it.

    I know what you mean. I just read a post on another thread that left me wondering if the writer was stroking out/heavily medicated/just plain illiterate. I certainly hope she communicates IRL better than she does on a MB.

    The post from "nurse educate" referring to clinical sign-offs made me think of that little procedure book we had to carry around on clinical. It had all of the required procedures you had to do to progress to the next level. If people think "Survivor" gets dirty, they should have seen how it got when you had a bunch of people vying for the chance to do the more uncommon procedures.

    I get impatient with myself; I really don't have the temperament to take on a student. Students require more nurturing than I can provide while trying to get my job done.
    CCL RN, No Stars In My Eyes, Fiona59, and 1 other like this.
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    I think nursing needs to do a better job of weeding people out. Let's start with requiring some SAT scores comparable to the other professional schools, which means no more of this community college for RNs stuff. It's nonsense. Professionals have college degrees (don't bother with the "I know a BSN who is a terrible nurse" crap- you will not convince me). The NCLEX needs to be much harder, and much more expensive. CEU requirements need to be more stringent, as in more rigorous, and more of them. In addition, RNs should have to reboard every 5 years, just like physicians.

    I honestly think if you weed out the lowest common denominator you will attract a higher caliber of professional, and then the money and respect will follow. I have said it before, and it isn't popular. The reason nursing isn't respected is because it is populated by people who simply aren't going to gain respect from other professionals. We need to get rid of them. Raise the bar, weed them out. I don't want girls who look and act like they belong on the pole representing nursing. I don't want Gomer Pyle representing nursing. I don't want idiots representing nursing. I don't want Jerry Springer guest material representing nursing. Raise the bar. Let's get rid of them.

    You want nursing to be elite, start only accepting elite into the ranks.

    Argue too strenuously with this, and I'm going to assume you fall into one of the Gomer Pyle or Springer categories.
    kids, Altra, VICEDRN, and 5 others like this.
  6. 0
    Quote from Flo.
    I think the problem is that staff nurses are being over worked. When I went to nursing school we had a clinical instructor on the floor. We asked the CI all of our questions and disturbed the RN as little as possible. Now there is no CI on the floor and students are assigned to work with the RNs. We don't get a lighter assignment or extra money. I don't think this is fair to any party involved.

    But to answer you question yes you are being idealistic. But I like it, I was idealistic once and according to older RNs I still am.

    No clinical instructor? Wow. I'd be lost without mine, and I know the nurses would probably kick us out on our bums without her there for us to ask questions.
  7. 0
    Linear Thinker says," the reason nursing isn't respected is" ; my question for him/ her is, isn't respected by whom? That is a massive generalization.
  8. 3
    We don't respect each other....why should anyone else?
    Esme12, CCL RN, and debstmomy like this.
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    I'm not an RN, I am an LPN, and though I was trained FOREVER ago, they key word in my training was PRACTCAL. We had clinicals in which we repeatedly practiced what we learned in theory. When I was sprung from nursing school I was ready, willing and able to DO all the skills that were required of me AND was able to back them up with the practice of making assessments because clinicals weren't just a matter of knowing how, but knowing why. Even if I wasn't signing off on my assessments, I had to damn well have the substance to back them up. I knew my scope of practice peripheries, but I also knew my "stuff". And I have been told by many that I needed to 'get' my RN. NO WAY! I like being a grunt! That used to be the only little corner of nursing where being a good bedside nurse was at the fore. Of course, now things have changed, and pfft...who needs the LPN anymore, huh?It didn't used to be the "us" vs. "them" mentality. And staff nurses were not expected to hold our hands. WE were expected to hold our own, because we were trained THOROUGHLY before we graduated.....by our clinical instructors. There was also the opportunity to learn new skills, but that was at the discretion of the facility at which you worked and was undertaken by that facility. But, you were no longer a student, you were a colleague.
    Esme12, nursel56, Mrs. SnowStormRN, and 1 other like this.
  10. 1
    Quote from No Stars In My Eyes
    I'm not an RN, I am an LPN, and though I was trained FOREVER ago, they key word in my training was PRACTCAL. We had clinicals in which we repeatedly practiced what we learned in theory. When I was sprung from nursing school I was ready, willing and able to DO all the skills that were required of me AND was able to back them up with the practice of making assessments because clinicals weren't just a matter of knowing how, but knowing why. Even if I wasn't signing off on my assessments, I had to damn well have the substance to back them up. I knew my scope of practice peripheries, but I also knew my "stuff". And I have been told by many that I needed to 'get' my RN. NO WAY! I like being a grunt! That used to be the only little corner of nursing where being a good bedside nurse was at the fore. Of course, now things have changed, and pfft...who needs the LPN anymore, huh?It didn't used to be the "us" vs. "them" mentality. And staff nurses were not expected to hold our hands. WE were expected to hold our own, because we were trained THOROUGHLY before we graduated.....by our clinical instructors. There was also the opportunity to learn new skills, but that was at the discretion of the facility at which you worked and was undertaken by that facility. But, you were no longer a student, you were a colleague.
    nursel56 likes this.


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